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Grittyville, WA

I was trying to figure out what this paramagnetism thing really is... The closest thing I can come up with is that it had to do with the availability of manganese. Some rocks should have more total manganese and more available manganese depending on the minerals and oxidation of the minerals in the rock.

Perhaps some other minerals like nickel also fit into this category, but its exhausting trying to figure out the truth. And if that didn't make the free electrons in your head spin enough (a paramegnetism joke), then finally, there's this: an antagonistic link between manganese and cobalt. Which was an interesting thing to stumble upon:


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284638157_Geochemistry_and_Mineralogy_of_Manganese_in_Soils/download?_tp=eyJjb250ZXh0Ijp7ImZpcnN0UGFnZSI6Il9kaXJlY3QiLCJwYWdlIjoiX2RpcmVjdCJ9fQ

I cant fully process this stuff. I'm not at that level mentally. But when I look at Sutherlands 17 lb. tomato I'm like, 'What am I seeing?' I'm seeing: manganese. A tomato like that takes more than just npk.

Merry Christmas. Technical stuff, its like the new fishing reel or something smallish that really ought to fit in the stocking... but that doesnt quite fit into the stocking lol.

[Last edit: 12/24/24 10:06:45 PM]

12/24/2024 9:43:46 PM

Colorado

lol

12/25/2024 2:18:51 AM

Colorado

try these. I once did a huge amount of research on this stuff. looking into the possibilities of a magnet that could attract gold. It would make my gold mining hobby easier :)

anyway these show it in simple terms more or less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEIYXomRdLY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRPcUQ1Ynb0

12/25/2024 2:37:37 AM

Syracuse, NY

Of my very brief looking into it, being that I'm C-Day stuffed and tired, I see that gold is not 'magnetic' and is somewhat repelled by a magnet, butt a metal detector that was mentioned of a specific type would detect gold, but probably any other, ferrous metals as well...If I were anywhere near supposed gold mining, I'd be at it with high hopes! Hit or miss, butt I didnt even think of it being a 'thing'. I'd be making post-hole-digger holes and droppin' the Big D! Ahem. Well, Good Luck, lol---eg

12/25/2024 11:56:53 PM

Grittyville, WA

I might trade being lucky at tomatoes for being lucky at finding gold. Its funny because I've watched gold panning/sluicing videos and I think 'there must be a better way.' But seeing the door and opening it are two different things.

12/26/2024 3:28:33 AM

Grittyville, WA

I'm thinking a person could use AI to design a perfect sluice that would removed any size gold with no operational downtime. But opening the door, aka modelling fluid dynamics into a perfect gold collection machine... for an average human this would be like trying to pick a lock with a wet herring, but I am sure there's a way. A smart person could figure it out or train an AI to figure it out.

12/26/2024 3:43:13 AM

Syracuse, NY

I'm thinking maybe frequency-specific, Ground-Penetrating Radar that would be of incredibly high intensity and set to indicate WHATever frequency gold resonates at, if at all.
Imagine, however, coming up with ideas like ours and I or we could never afford to use them for OURselves! Meanwhile, all the critters are wiped out in my search of my back yard, lol. Err, I mean, 'Awww...' eric g

12/26/2024 11:29:57 AM

Grittyville, WA

Like the dolphins and whales getting hit by navy sonar, but for the moles & such. Yeah, gold doesnt actually generate life, so unless its a component in something good and useful, its value is in fact a bit abstract, not worth destroying the planet for.

12/26/2024 11:54:52 PM

Colorado

gold mining/prospecting is amazing magic. I can take this huge pile of dirt and do a few processes to it and all the gold no mater the size, some the size of tiny sand grains or smaller, are found at the end of it. I can throw that tiny gold sand grain back into the pile of dirt and find it every time. magic.

12/27/2024 2:42:18 AM

Syracuse, NY

Whaaaa...? I have never, never, never seen actual gold in any pure form, ever, since my childhood and I could be a Grand Dad by now. A few relatives out West had said they'd send me personally a gold 'nugget' that they were using as a door stop when I was prolly 7 or 8...Never happened and I'da ruined it anyway, lol. That's fascinating, Mister! Well, back ta...eg

12/27/2024 4:46:51 AM

Germany

Don´t worry about that paramagnetism thing (at least, don´t worry about it too much). It´s just a physical property. Basically, you are right when you say that there´s more than just N/P/K. There are many trace elements (Mn, Fe, Cu, Zn, Mo, B) which are important for healthy plant growth. Some of them appear as paramagnetic ions, but it isn´t the paramagnetism itself which makes them work. For example, iron and manganese form paramagnetic species, and Mn(2+) has basically the same paramagnetism as Fe(3+), but their bio-availability does not relate to the paramagnetism. Mn(2+) is plant available, whereas the less paramagnetic species Mn(3+) and Mn(4+) are locked in your soil as MnOOH, MnO2 and other stuff. In case of iron, the highly paramagnetic Fe(3+) is less available (locked in the soil as FeOOH, Fe2O3 etc.), while the less paramagnetic Fe(2+) is much better available to the plant. It is important to have the needed elements available in a plant-friendly form. The paramagnetism of the soil itself could be a hint at the presence of some important trace minerals, but paramagnetism is just an overall physical property (like temperature, electrical conductivity etc.), and for the plant it is important where it comes from...for the plant it is important that the right elements are there in a balanced ratio and of good availability.

[Last edit: 01/02/25 8:16:59 AM]

1/2/2025 8:16:08 AM

East Sussex, UK

I have seen a lot of talk about volcanic rock dust (such as basalt) being very useful for raising the paramagnetism of the soil and leading to increases in yields, which is what we are all after essentially, right? I am trying it this year anyways. Can't hurt.

1/2/2025 9:13:19 AM

Grittyville, WA

Pumpking,

The plant sap analysis guy (Kempf) thinks that while Fe2 is easily absorbed, its the "less healthy" version of iron. The plant can maybe use enzymes to switch it to Fe3? But it might be better to have less total iron, and more of the Fe3 type. Maybe it has to do with aging and free radicals, not just nutrition.

I did come across info that said some basalt is much higher in manganese than other basalt. I haven't used rock dust products myself, but living near a volcano, Im surrounded by it. If I'm gonna pay for it, its gotta be more special than what Ive already got. If I was going to spend money on rock dust I would want to know what the reason for ascribing value to it. And then maybe just go source some of it direct from the source because Im cheap.

I think glacial dust could have good soil properties, maybe only silicates though unless they're cutting through basalt. I think its a big part of the reason why we can grow the tallest trees in the world here. But California grows tall trees too, in areas without glaciers, so who knows.

I can get a little bit into geology without getting over my head because my dad was a geologist. And a bit of a Scot with money, as well.

1/2/2025 9:41:18 AM

Germany

Oh yes, I fully agree, the capability of Fe(2+) of getting absorbed much easier can certainly turn it into something bad for the plant (if the plant absorbs, just because it can), and I´m sure that´s they way that iron(II) sulphate works when fighting moss in the lawn. Regarding the one or the other being actually "healthier", we would have to compare the use of the same amount that can be absorbed, because, comparing an Fe(2+) source in excess with a Fe(3+) source in excess, while the excess of the latter cannot be absorbed, I would call the Fe(3+) the "safe version" rather than the "healthier version". Anyway, back to paramagnetism, I basically wanted to say that paramagnetism is just a generic physical property and doesn´t tell anything about the nutrition provided by the soil. Just imagine that there are many other elements (like rare earth elements) which are highly paramagnetic, and then imagine a soil which merely consists of a loam which is rich in rare earth elements (and thus highly paramagnetic)...the magnitude of the paramagnetism doesn´t tell anything about the contents of the soil. However, when referring to a particular class of minerals or rocks (like basalt rock dust), which has a certain range of ingredients, and where you can be sure that the paramagnetism comes from a particular set of important and nutritious contributors (like manganese), then there is a correlation (at least to some extent) between the paramagnetism and the amount of that element contained in that mineral or rock dust.

[Last edit: 01/03/25 4:53:46 AM]

1/3/2025 4:45:19 AM

Germany

Just imagine electric conductivity as another "generic physical property". People measure EC of their fertilizer solutions...for the same reason. It´s not the EC itself which makes the solution nuritious. You could achieve a solution with the same EC by using water and rock salt (and your plants will suffer), but as long as you limit the use of compounds capable of creating conductivity to those of value to the plant (like potassium, magnesium etc. salts), then there is a correlation (to some extent) between EC and the fertilizer content in your fertilizer solution. Also, regardless of the contents, the EC also gives an idea (in terms of some kind of correlation) of the amount of compounds which contribute to "osmotic pressure", and a too much of them can cause osmotic stress to the plant. Therefore, EC can help you tell if you could put a bit more fertilizer into the solution without exposing the plant to additional osmotic stress.
Finally, as to your question if you want to buy additional rock dust or not, one of the valuable properties of rock dust is the cation exchange capacity (it depends on the kind of rock dust, on the kind and amount of clay minerals contained in the rock dust). So, if your soil analysis already tells you that you´ve got excellent CEC, and you know that your soil is rich in minerals which come from volcanic rocks, then the addition of more rock dust could be a waste of money. If CEC is still asking for some improvement, then rock dust could be a helper.

[Last edit: 01/03/25 4:51:13 AM]

1/3/2025 4:45:28 AM

Grittyville, WA

I did EC a few times a long time ago until my meter got lost. What I learned from the EC metering is that I already have my own EC meter. You see, some things are edible, like epsom salts. You can taste the solution and get a sense for how potent it is. Better to err on the side of bland when feeding both kids and plants, lol. And no I'm not feeding my kids epsom salt nor myself but thats not the point the point is plants are probably the same as us... they probably love their high salt food right up to the point where its too salty and then it makes them sick just like how it would make us sick.

As for glacier dust we have this stuff called glacial till which is the worst stuff in the world to grow anything on (besides a douglas fir maybe) but then there is also loess dirt on the other half of the state which I think is derived from glaciers too, and its excellent soil.

So I guess you cant just throw a word out like "glacial" and its magically going to be good. Perhaps it needs to be saturated with calcium ions, etc. first. CEC is great but if there's a lack of cations to go along with it, then it just creates an acidic "paved parking lot" effect... rather than a "paradise"?

I'll probably stick with other things that I understand better. Ive got my hands full already with the improvements that I do understand.

1/3/2025 10:03:48 AM