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Joliet, IL

After discussions for years with a fellow Illinois giant pumpkin grower Greg Sliwka about differences of density of flesh, I was wondering if anyone had thoughts about how we could do a consistant density testing procedure. I thought of doing 3" cores, but squares make more sense. If growers cut let's say a 6" x 6" x width of flesh all the way from outside to inside and calculated the volume and then weighed the chunk and then calculated the density average on a ratio basis, then we could start tracking this characteristic better.

What made me think of it again was the carlson peterson team's 1810 fruit when they recently posted about the grainy stringy nature of flesh (opposite of cutting like butter) this type of flesh was in my 1041 mckie pumpkin going 15.4% heavy and the traits made it into the following 2 generations with a 24 % heavy in the 873 Naylor and 20% heavy in my 1209 last year. Wall thickness may be one thing, but density of flesh is the difference maker. If you look at pics of the recent posts of the inside of the carlson peterson pumpkin off the 1810, you can see harder colored flesh especially in the first 4 to 5 inches from the outside shell.

My reasoning for the standardize chunk density testing is that ott and percent over is a nice tool, but the deviation based on different shapes and diiference in measuring can have a greater degree of variance.

Any thoughts on setting up a standard size chunk and system for testing density is welcomed. Also it would be interesting to see multiple chunks from different areas like stem side compared to blossom end, or the bottom as opposed to the topside density. Could make a nice thesis study for an AG student.

9/2/2011 1:00:28 PM

Germany

Hi Shazzy,
I agree that it would be interesting to compare multiple chunks from various parts of one fruit, as I believe they will show differences in density. Another important influence on density, however, might be age of the pumpkin. There might be notable differences between 65 DAP and 90 DAP pumpkins, but you cannot figure out if these differences arise from age or from genetics, as you cannot cut out the same chunk from one pumpkin every week for density measurement. One would have to grow 10 plants (clones, of course) on the same patch, pollinate all of them within a few days, and cut out chunks from one after another little pumpkin week by week, in order to find out if there´s a systematic correlation between DAP and flesh density. Let´s look for somebody who is willing to care for 10 plants and to cut chunks out of their little pumpkins. Really a task for a Ph.D. thesis, a well deserved one.

9/2/2011 3:40:34 PM

Rapid City, SD

my vote is...........keep it simple, keep it fun

9/2/2011 6:57:47 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Shaz, I understand yer theory, but the only time I saw this done was at the Indiana State Fair, and they cut the "cores" w/ a chain saw & then stuffed "approx, way over a dozen" less than 8 year old kids inside the pkn!!! Sorry, lost my train of thought there for a second!!! LOL Grow em BIG!!! Peace, Wayne

9/3/2011 4:17:28 AM

Muddy Waters

Wow! too much for me guys!! Gone fishing!!

9/3/2011 5:18:35 AM

Germany

Shazzy, it looks like we are the only ones who want to make it more scientific.

9/3/2011 10:51:23 AM

Joliet, IL

science was always my favorite subject and it is how my mind works. break it down and figure out why. i think it would be interesting to see enough comparisons of density from different lines. i understand how some people do not think science is fun. the only way my brain works is to ask "why" and "how" and "what". i have been doing density comparisons with pumpkin flesh for 7 years now with soil testing euqipment used for measuring the bearing capacity of soil. this is not a truly accurate way, but does give me enough data to see the different colors of flesh and see where the firmest layers are and so on and compare between different lines. still working on trying to find a consistant heavy line like an 898 used for pollinating into big shell producing lines and vice versa.

9/3/2011 11:45:22 AM

Long Island,New York

Pumpkin penetrometer?..lol...

9/3/2011 12:01:52 PM

Colorado

shaz , i assume youre taking these cores after the contest???

9/3/2011 2:08:12 PM

canal winchester ohio

I think your on the right track Shaz. With a few exceptions most pumpkins are the same thickness with a 2-3" variance. All of mine that have gone heavy always have that fibererous wall you are talking about with the lighter ones having smooth centers.

9/3/2011 3:49:41 PM

Joliet, IL

For a study to be done the chunks would best be cut out and weighed the day of the weigh off. This would be tough to sacrifice immediately as most of us like to display our pumpkins. When I have used my penetrometer (G hit it on the head) it was always done on seed harvesting day just for shit n giggles to see how the various sections of the profile have a firmer outer ring and how far this firmer flesh goes inward in thickness. The light pumpkin of 13.3% light had all butter flesh with barely any firmness at 3 inches from the outside skin while last years was hard as rock until 7 inches in and then buttered up some. Lighter colored flesh equals softer lighter material and density in my observation, and the darker maroon or purpilish and sometimes greenish darker tints are the more dense variety. Finding some of those who think nothing of retrieving the seeds the same day would be a start. But since pumpkins may have been not growing for days before a weigh off in many or most cases, it is not critical for exact timeliness of cutting and weighing the core. No doubt the levels continuaaly drop with age after it stops growing. Densities could be taken at carving time quickly and a note with how many days the density was after picking would still show enough variations of other pumpkins density at the same about many days after picking and comparison info could be gathered.

9/4/2011 1:34:59 PM

Joliet, IL

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=98952

this picture shows the darker color flesh. look down at the lower right side or the upper left side with the angle cut in the light to see the harder firmer darker color i am described in the last post.

9/4/2011 1:56:14 PM

shazzy something ive wanted to do but never got around to maybe you could follow up on this somwhow after or during weighoff

take a slice of pumpkin a exact certian size example 5 inch x 5 inch square or what ever and weigh a few differnt pumpkins

9/6/2011 5:55:23 PM