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Iowa

So how much do you till? Can you over do it? Or could it be a good thing in the long run??

4/15/2011 12:59:07 AM

France

Too much till destroy the soil structure and can create a hard waterproof bottom (semelle de labour in French. The curve of the teeth is the problem specially with a tractor rotovator.

4/15/2011 3:42:06 AM

Muddy Waters

Ive been rototilling for 2 years without plowing to keep organic compost on top.Should I plow? or run my single tooth down to break up hard pan?I use a tractor tiller & rear hand tiller.Also my PH shot up over winter would plowing help lower PH??Any real farmers out there.I have a 12 inch plow(single),a 12 inch single tooth,??Any suggestions from knowledgeable people???

4/15/2011 6:54:02 AM

Rhode Island

definately sub-soil to break up any hardpan that may be there. might also help lower ph if you sub-soil down at least two ft below surface.then till after sub-soiling.
its a good practice to break up that sub soil every two or three seasons.

4/15/2011 8:04:49 AM

Iowa

so pap whats your thoughts on over tilling during the growing season?

4/15/2011 9:05:26 AM

Buffalo, New York

i normally til 2 times in the spring. 1st time to till under the rye, and again to till in any amendments i add .2 times in the fall, till up after plant removal and again after adding amendments.
i have no access to getting a subsoiler in my backyard but plan on buying a broadfork to try to break up the hard pan alittle bit.

4/15/2011 10:05:03 AM

Buffalo, New York

i bought a mini tiller this spring also i will use to help keep weeds down around the outside of plant while its growing also.....just make sure you dont get too close during the season to not hurt any roots.

4/15/2011 10:06:17 AM

Redmond, Washington; U.S.A.

I like to play with my toys. I till in fall and then again in late spring!

4/15/2011 12:24:46 PM

Anamosa, IA [email protected]

There is a good website http://soilquality.org that deals with all kinds of topics related to soil quality. It is mainly geared towards farmers but think we all can learn from it. In nearly every category of soil quality the recommendation is to reduce tillage and increase organic matter. A few years ago I saw a demonstration on both sides of a fence where one side was notill for many years and the other side was conventional tillage. The differences in the soils were dramatic. The notill had more organic matter, less compaction, more worms, better infiltration, etc.

Anymore I try to limit my tillage to incorporation of added organic material or to break up compaction caused by the truck when we load up a pumpkin. I till what I can with a fork as it gets deeper than my TroyBilt when breaking compaction.

I usually go about 2 forks deep around where the stump and first few of feet of the main will run. I add lots of manure, compost, leaves and grass clippings when I do that. I can get away with that because my subsoil is sandy silt and drains well. I use glyphosate for weed control as much as possible to limit tillage. Especially early in the spring when the earthworms are shallower in the soil. I know that my soil will crust over in a hurry if I till it up too much and wreck the soil structure. For my tomatoes and other vegetables I am building raised beds so they don't get compacted and don't need tillage. They have nice mellow soil in the spring. My pumpkin patches are gradually becoming raised beds as I enlarge the drainage ditches around them and add lots of new topsoil and organic matter.

4/15/2011 1:44:15 PM

Johnston, Iowa

My tiller sees action in the fall to incorporate amendments, in the spring to till in organic material and undo compaction. In the early season I sometimes till for weed control, being mindful to stay well away from pumpkin roots.

4/15/2011 5:13:38 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

I try to till once to break up the soil in the pring and add the amendments once thats done I put up the greenhouses and pick out any rocks and other debris that may be there. Then I till once more to fluff up the soil that I conpacted,while putting the greenhouses up. After that the tilling should stop and platform shoes are worn. I think you can certainly overtill the soil. I lose some ammendments that I put down do to the spring rains we get so I try to stay off the patch and till only when needed. As a new grower myself I understand ill have to get the soil sub soiled at some point.

4/15/2011 5:14:36 PM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

Steve,
There's a huge organic movement in our area and it's been proven time and again that no-till has benefits beyond the plow and subsoiler.
Once the soil gets back to normal (might mean several years of no-till management) you likely won't have soil pans and the soil structure will be improved.
Until a pumpkin sets a world record using total no-till methods we're still going to see most growers tilling to loosen soil, break hardpans, kill weeds, and mix in ammendments.
Thinking about the trends of growing giants, we are adding more and more "biological" substances such as mychorhizae, azos, actinovate, companion, biota-max, etc.. for their beneficial effects. A lot of these biologicals are naturally found in healthy soils. I think every time one tills it diminishes the natural health of your soil. So to answer your question I think yes you can over-till and create an unhealthy soil that you might now consider adding amendments to to improve its health and structure.

4/15/2011 9:49:09 PM

Muddy Waters

Wow very informative! Thanks everyone!

4/15/2011 10:49:20 PM

Muddy Waters

What are Azos???

4/16/2011 6:03:17 AM

Rhode Island

s.krug

we till once in the spring and once again in the fall.each time because we have added ammendments to the soil and wish to mix in rather than leaving them lay on top and wash off.

im not a no till proponent. it does have its merits for sure. but in our hobby? we need to till, loosen the soil, allow better air flow, mix in nutrients and manures,etc.its the lesser of two evils.

pap

4/16/2011 7:08:34 AM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

Azos (Azospirillum Brasilense XOH)
is a nitrogen fixing bacteria

4/16/2011 7:45:03 AM

Soldiers Grove, WI

Steve,
Personally I do not till as to not destroy the precious microbiological diversity that is found naturally within my soil. I myself cannot recreate the conditions that already exist within my soil. I let the worms due the tilling. I hope this helps.

4/16/2011 7:28:46 PM

Puyallup, WA

Till vs. no till. I think that it depends on the texture of your soil. Personally, I have high clay content in my soil. Unless the soil is loosened (ie. broken up some how)
no air can get to the root zone of the plants....pumpkin plants need air at their roots if they are to grow at the maximum rate. Minimizing compaction is important in clay soils. Those lucky folk with sandy loam may be able to get by without tilling. Talk to Jack LaRue about "no till methods". He has been a strong advocate in the past.
Please don't tell me to add more "organic matter" to my soil and the problem will be solved. In the past ten years, I have added hundreds of tons to my patch and I still have soil that iseems to be mostly clay......especially when it is wet and cold (56.4°) like it is right now. It is April 16th and the patch is still saturated with water due to unprecidented rainfall this Spring. I put a shovel in it now and it appears to be nearly solid clay. In the summer, it looks like "good stuff"!

4/16/2011 11:55:01 PM

Mass

I tried it for first year in some of my patch. I let my winter rie get 6 ft tall, then folded it over for mulch as plants expanded. I let it go to long, went to seed, then more grew!! Had to bring in soil/slash compost to bury all vines, was like working in sod. there was no loose soil to work with. Plants were very short and small diamater vines. Plants that I had in tilled area had thicker vines, taller and larger leaves, and I could use surrounding soil to cover vines. I tilled fall amendments in and this Spring also. Going to keep it loose and fluffy this year. I did have soaker hoses in last year so couldnt till after they were in. Might be able to use mini tiller in and around Starr system if needed this year.

4/17/2011 6:34:39 AM

Kentucky, U.S.A.

Brought home a new honda powered CubCadet rear-tine tiller last night. My sweetheart is the best! I'll be rippen up some mother earth. Thankfully I have much of the patch in good shape being this is just my second year to attempt a giant kin. Soil composition is the most important item in a beginner program,IMO! You can test germinations, and watering technics, even experiment with foliars(a little), but if you jack the soil your season ends real quick! From a beginners view!!! BSD, David

4/17/2011 10:31:19 AM

Alaska

Till Baby Till!

4/17/2011 12:40:11 PM

Buffalo, New York

I know over tilling is no good, but 8-10" down, I have clay.

My troybilt doesnt go deep enough and I have access to getting a subsoiler in my backyard.

I just ordered one of these, cheapest I could find with 14" tines.

http://hometownusastores.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=16&products_id=1599

4/17/2011 12:56:08 PM

Weedville,pa

Jeremy, I have the same problem here in PA. I was checking out the broadfork in your link....could you please give a review of it once you get to use it? I may get one as well.

4/17/2011 7:26:57 PM

Buffalo, New York

thats the cheapest place i could find it hillbilly. other places want $90+ with shipping.

here is the same fork with a few reviews.....i will review it after it arrives.

http://www.gemplers.com/product/171331/Bully-Tools-Broadfork?sku=171331&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=171331#TAB-REVIEWS

4/17/2011 7:29:32 PM

Weedville,pa

thanks, Jeremy! It seems you've looked around at the broadforks too....I'd love to try one out on my clay soil but would rather not spend a fortune to get one. the reviews sound favorable, i'm anxious to hear yours. much appreciated!

4/17/2011 9:16:20 PM

Weedville,pa

Jeremy, I was reading more about these (you probably have read the same things) but Bully Tools are made in the USA and have a lifetime warranty + fee shipping. I'm going to order one tonight

4/17/2011 9:31:26 PM

Buffalo, New York

The price was right Hillbilly.....I didnt want to spend $150+ for one even if it is of better quality.

4/18/2011 8:24:08 AM

Iowa

Thanks all for posting, Stan, yep I HEAR YA. Clay is hard to work with, my patch is clay and stumps. lol Spudley don't really know how to take your post?? Do you till often,or are you worried about your worms?

4/22/2011 3:33:37 AM