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Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Yesterday I was asked bluntly, how many auctions are you going to have in one Winter. In case anyone else is wondering the same, I posted on December 18 that we would divide our auction into two parts, not unlike many other clubs. Our two small auctions will have a total of 25 lots, give or take, not much compared to other clubs. Having two smaller auctions on the message board breaks it up and we chose times that hopefully won't/didn't coincide with other clubs.

1/11/2011 6:39:17 AM

canal winchester ohio

First off Andy you shouldn't have to explain yourself to anyone as there are so many auctions now ( and multiple auctions) that one person shouldn't be singled out.
This second part has nothing to do with you Andy but I feel this is a great time to express something, it's just my opinion on where things are going. I personally think we have 3-4 years of auctions left then their done. In the 2005-2006 auction year there were 12-14 "chat room" auctions & 2-3 silent auctions held on BP.com
This year there are 38 scheduled chat room auctions & more silent auctions than be kept track of. At that rate in 3-4 years we are going to max out & fail. If you think it won't keep growing your wrong, as long as money can be made the well will be tapped deeper & deeper.
A few years ago Pap Wallace started the idea of packaging bundles of seeds for a set price ( an idea I really like & have taken advantage of). Well here we are a few years later & many more groups are doing the package deal as well. I feel we are at the tipping point on this & the package deals are going to choke out the auctions as a money maker.
Which brings me to another problem, accountability. The past couple of years I've seen people accused of miss-using funds only to be proven later that it was all on the up & up and someone was mistakenly dragged thru the mud & that stigma can be hard to shake even if it's not true.
And I really think as we get more & more larger raising money for weigh offs this will get worse & worse.

1/11/2011 8:37:21 AM

canal winchester ohio

And remember when I say the following I am blaming NO ONE...I am just trying to be pre-emptive for the sake of innocent people being tried & hung before all facts are known.
We use this site as a money maker & this site has provided more info than most of us can absorb. And it would be safe to say that 99.9% of the groups raising money on here are non-profit groups so why not have a section of the site with every club using the site as a money maker be made to provide a word document on the monetary breakdown of their club.
(1) Dues
(2) sponsorship money
(3) proceeds from auctions
(3) proceeds from seed sales & follow-up paper work of seeds sold to provide transparency
(4) weigh off costs & money paid out
(5) year end balance sheets
Before anyone jumps on me about this remember this site has become a money maker for a lot of us & I feel this is the best way to keep folks from being "tried" in chat rooms before they even know what's being said.
If we are willing to abuse this site for our monetary gain shouldn't we be responsible enough to show where it's going. Almost 100% of us aren't businesses we are Non-Profit groups.
All right you guys can shoot me down now.
Paul

1/11/2011 8:37:49 AM

Western NY

Nothing to shoot down, Paul. Good ideas.

1/11/2011 9:59:38 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Great ideas Paul. Then perhaps when a "club" raises a bunch of money from donated seeds, then cancels their weighoff with 2 weeks notice, won't then be permitted to hold another 2 nights of auctions to raise money for a weighoff that is likely to be cancelled again.

Would'nt anyone be interested in knowing what happened to all the cash raised in the previous year?

1/11/2011 12:54:17 PM

canal winchester ohio

I'm looking at it from a liability standpoint as well. I like to look at the worse that can happen & work backwards. Years ago I ran a gym & we had non-profit status so I know the pain in the butt of the end of year summaries.
As this fund raising gets larger eventually someone is going to raise the IRS's interest ( I know Canada is different)& when they look into where the money is being raised wouldn't it be nice for there to be a section where all "non-profit" clubs put their year end statements. I'm sure all clubs do this already, but when you think of the amount of money this site directly helps raise thru seed sales & auctions I think tranpariency would be a good thing.

1/11/2011 1:11:56 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

sorry but there is a big difference between a public company and a private membership club. if you buy a seed at auction you have bought a seed thats it. if you want to know where the money is going either join the club or the IRS. i'm not defending my club rather making a general statement on behalf of all clubs.

1/11/2011 1:44:38 PM

upwind of Carl

I don't get involved on the boards because I'm new to the pumpkin community but on this I can add a little. Yes a public buisness and private club are different but both do pay taxes. If your growers clubs don't pay taxes that makes you non profit tax exempt. And when filing a 990 which is required by all non profit groups there is a box to mark that states financial records were made public . Every one does that correct.

1/11/2011 2:44:26 PM

canal winchester ohio

WOW!! I started this discussion to try & avoid witch hunts, nothing more nothing less. it's been at least 17 years since I ran that gym in Circleville but I do remember that by being non profit it was a HUGE pain ( half the reason I got out of it). I probably didn't need to fill everything out because what's the chance right?
I was just afraid of getting a letter 10 years later saying guess who...LOL

1/11/2011 3:53:33 PM

Ohio

Glenn, I agree with you a ka-zillion % !!

Peyton,
where would one go to find this public information of financial records if the box was marked with a X ?
Where do they make it public to all to see at?

Thanks
Brooks

1/11/2011 4:51:55 PM

Ohio

Andy, I wouldnt worry about that at all bud, dont worry about what 1 person thinks, espically when their is other people who has had a auction for a event already that ended up never happening, and then turn right around again this year and have 2 more auctions for that same exact event that never happend for next years event that will never happen,,,LOL

1/11/2011 5:04:34 PM

upwind of Carl

Don't know exact spot but I visit nonprofitissues.com when I want answers

1/11/2011 5:39:20 PM

Ohio

thanks Peyton

1/11/2011 6:27:01 PM

Salinas, Ca

Following is a link to review/research 990 non profit tax returns. These are for legal nonprofits which have filed a tax return:

http://foundationcenter.org/findfunders/990finder/

Regarding the "box" noted above - all "non profits" are required to disclose how they make their 990 available to the public, that can be as simple as providing someone a copy when requested.

1/11/2011 6:32:42 PM

Redmond, Washington; U.S.A.

Huff that all sounds reasonable. Good post. I am not sure if its a good idea to post all the clubs financials online though for security purposes. In the PNWGPG we keep track of all expenses and credits. The info is presented to our members at our annual spring business meeting.

1/11/2011 8:31:27 PM

canal winchester ohio

I wouldn't recommend bank statements for the reasons you stated but it could be clear without showing security numbers. Say I had a club..here's how it might look
(1) membership-50 members @ $20 each = $1000
and list members
(2) 1 auction held on BP raising $2000
(3)) seeds donated to club
** all examples
1207 Young- 20 seeds donated @ $40 each = $800
1421 Stelts- 10 seeds donated @ $50 each = $500
Huffer 1824...lol --10 seeds donated @ $100 each= $1000
total from seed sales $2300
(4) sponsor money & list the sponsor
$750
** total brought in $6050 for 2010
payout at weighoff $4500
costs of weighoff $1200
misc ( newsletters ect.) $250
ending balance for 2010= $100
Now this wouldn't be too hard to do would it.

1/11/2011 9:05:56 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Brooks, I think you may be related to Yogi Berra. You better cut the pizza in four pieces, I’m not hungry enough to eat eight and I think we made too many wrong mistakes. If the world were perfect, it wouldn’t be but I knew I was going to take the wrong train, so I left early.
Thanks bud, lol.

1/11/2011 9:24:25 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

When the infamous KPM changed to the KGPG, I also was curious about non profit status...was told you's guy's are small time...if yer books balance...don't worry about it!!! I talked w/ treasurer & seems we have $2.11 left over from last year...so should I be worried? Peace, Wayne

1/12/2011 12:04:19 AM

Dummer Twp - Ontario

Big Pumpkins is a great site and we would be at a major disadvantage without it. I'm sure Ken wants nothing to do with our accounting as he has enough to do. All the clubs are run by executive structure and if your not comfortable buying seeds at auction or raffle then don't buy them. We have a spring meeting where we go over step by step our financial spending for the members to see and discuss.

WE the growers have driven the fundraising to be what it is as in order to get the big ones at our weigh offs instead of the other groups weigh offs. There will always be situations that arise where things didn't work out as planned but just don't support that cause next time if your not comfortable with how it was handled last time.


Kirk

1/12/2011 4:42:50 AM

upwind of Carl

Just trying to help where I thought I could. If your clubs have annual financial report meetings for your members then I wouldn't worry one bit if I was those groups. Even if you were questioned by a outside entity you would look fine. Now if your club doesn't lay it all out for members I would worry about where my money was going . Mabey the persons who run this site where the auctions are held at should be privy to that info as well since his their site is being used as a fundraiser but mabey they already are and then this whole discussion has been a waste of time.

1/12/2011 9:15:13 AM