From

Location

Message

Date Posted

[email protected]

Okay, I am very interested in this topic. Whoended up with the greenjacket? Was it Ned Sandercock? Was it the fella who was in Europe ? One is GPC, one is not. Both are light green at best but still true green squash.. One was seen by hundreds at a bigtime GPC weigh off (Cooperstown), the other in a countryside weigh off in no mans land with possibly a non certified scale.

My reasoning here is this.. Without a governing body to oversee the green jacket and verify that there were certified scales, color checking by more than pictures - who truely gets the green jacket?

I was involved in the orginal start up of the green jacket/trophy presentation but backed out due to a busy schedule. If this is going to be part of the Niagara weekend every year, it needs to have some type of certification and governing body, such as the GPC.

10/19/2010 7:15:33 AM

South Finland

Arnold Horde from Netherlands grew a true squash that was weighed in Netherlands weigh off. He also brought the same squash to European championship weigh off that was held in Germany 10th of Oct.
In Netherland weigh off it´s weigh was 1106 lbs, one week later in European wo it weighed 494.6 kilos that is 1090.4lbs.

I was in European weigh off myself and I have more than 10 good pictures of the fruit. I checked the fruit myself all over and it was totally in good shape still. Colour is green-grayish without any stripes/lighter spots or anything.
If anyone is interested of the pictures and contact info for Weigh off organiser, I am glad to help.

Regards,

Kaarina / EGVGA President

hotseeds(at)gmail.com

10/19/2010 7:44:24 AM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

I thought Glenn Andrews was a major part of the Green Crew that oversees what greenies go around and who truely lands the Big Green.

10/19/2010 12:02:56 PM

Netherlands

I think your information is quite incorrect. Arnold Horde's squash was weighed at the Dutch Giant Vegetable Championship which adheres to EGVGA and international rules for all specimens presented. The squash was inspected by two board members of the EGVGA, including myself. Arnold's squash was medium green-grey (and certainly not light green) and 100% covered by this colour with no hint of any other colour anywhere.

The scale was certified as all of the scales used at the Dutch Giant Vegetable Championship are. With 45 entries, this weigh-off is by no means one of the smallest.

It is a good point you make, but perhaps you should check out your info first before making conclusions. For example, in a country as small as Holland with 16 million inhabitants, there is no "no mans land" and the weigh-off wasn't in the country side and growers and public came from the far south to the islands in the north!

Bradley Wursten
Results and records coordinator EGVGA
Judge Dutch Giant Vegetable Championship

10/19/2010 12:51:27 PM

Long Island,New York

The current leader in the Green Jacket/Squash Trophy "contest" is Arnold Horde and his beautifull all-grey-green 1106 lb squash he brought to the Dutch Giant Vegetable Competition a couple weeks ago. Anyone else have a big "True-Green" going to the scales this year?...Glenn

10/19/2010 1:01:14 PM

Honesdale Pa USA

Dark green, light green,grey green,blue green grey,they are all squash by rule. True green would be light,medium or dark green,green is green! I've seen Ned's squash,its medium to dark green with grey flecking. Arnold's squash appears to be light to medium green from pictures I have seen. They are both squash. I know Ned will probably not comment on this thread but I will! The GPC does not award the green jacket. I believe Glenn is the sole vote on the jacket,I may be wrong about that? Ned knows this,so be it. The point is maybe the GPC should become more involved with the award since it is presented at the GPC convention at Niagra.

10/19/2010 8:45:57 PM

Long Island,New York

But isn't 1106 bigger (heavier) than 1083?

10/19/2010 9:08:09 PM

[email protected]

I just dont understand the way you ripped Neds fruit for it's questionable color (when it was deemed so by the GPC officials at Cooperstown) then come out and say how beautiful the 1106 was in its "all grey green" glory. Then you continue to say anyone else have a "true green" fruit going to the scales - further digging the GPC champs entry amazed me.

Congratulations to Arnold and his wonderful specimen. My perception of the weigh off was way off base and to Arnold and Brad, I apologize. My point here is the fact that this entire story was started with barbs shot at Neds fruit and its color.

I am very glad that the greenies are recognized through this process, I just wish it didnt start out on the negativity it did with the questioning of the fruits color.

10/19/2010 9:21:02 PM

Long Island,New York

Rocky you are way off base with your comments and your interpretation on my comments. You can't possibly be serious. Show me where I "Ripped" Ned's fruit for its questionable color.
my comments:
Sure like to know who judged that a squash...not a squash by "True Green" or "Green Jacket" rules if the pictures Ive seen are true to color........."100% green grey or blue with allowances for the classic white striping and flecking of the old squash lines...not counting areas at the ground level....I then simply asked for more pictures.
At the time of my comment Neds fruit was the heaviest of the year. Its my job as the only one of the three who started this that actually stuck it out through the tough times to verify the "True Green" fruits. Yes Rocky- TRUE GREEN- the term we used to describe the fruit when we started this. The TRUE GREEN GROWERS. Funny how you now find this term WE ended up with offensive and digging now. Why is that Rocky?

10/19/2010 10:05:14 PM

Deer Park WA

Green Rules, would love to get a seed or to for crossing with our 834*,,, Would put the proper Black/Green colour back into the momma!

10/19/2010 10:06:45 PM

[email protected]

The term TRUE GREEN was in fact made because back then the GPC had the dreaded 75/25 rule and it put "squmpkins" anywhere they damn well pleased. My son grew the 1177 Haist last year and got a 915 pounder, and was very similar to Neds 1177. I believe Karl grew one also that was green/grey striped and very light in color. Was it Gadberry834 green? No way.. Was it a squash by the definition? I believe it to be 100 percent TRUE GREEN by the specifications we drew up.

You know I love the greenies, Loved the 895 Hester genes, Sam grew an 848 McKenzie this year which was also true green - deep green. But do I say Neds was possibly a pumpkin, no way. Does it qualify for the jacket? I believe so, that is - if it ended up being the heaviest which it did not.

G, you are a good, noble man for sticking with the green jacket thing through thick and thin. I applaud your efforts. I wish I wasnt coaching track and field, football, and raising a family while trying to grow in my little space in my back yard. My time was to be refocused when I had to let the jacket thing go but knew it was in good hands. I just wanted some clarifications on color, whom was eligible, and the what ifs when it came down to a weigh off many were not familiar with. A very good endorsement from Brad in an earlier post hopefully cleared things up - atleast for me- about Arnolds fruit.

10/19/2010 11:23:49 PM

[email protected]

Oops, and Hottis too.. Didnt mean to leave you out Kaarina !

10/19/2010 11:26:29 PM

Honesdale Pa USA

Congrats to Arnold on the green jacket and to Ned as GPC champ,so far!

10/19/2010 11:56:59 PM

Las Cruces NM

Wow! First, *IF* the GPC goverened the Jacket, wouldn't it have to be weighed at GPC event to be eligible for the Jacket? Now when I grew up pumpkins were orange and anything else was a squash and that still holds true in most definitions. So my question, if a state fair maintains an orange pumpkin definition and a 500lb orange AG, a 1100 white AG, and a 600lb true green AG, all beating old weights, which would be official record pumpkin and which official record squash? If there was then a GPC event in same state, with 400lb orange, 1000 white, and 700lb true green, which would be the official state records then? Who records official state records? Who gives out the orange jacket ... who gives out the green jacket ... who gives out the pink panties?

10/20/2010 12:27:11 AM

Indiana

It is important to note that the GPC is not the sponsor of the Green Jacket.

I think the current GPC rule is something that needs addressed. I would be happy to volunteer my opinion which is based on 10+ years of working on genetics in these things as to helping develop a rule that is more appropriate to determine squash vs pumpkin.

From a genetic standpoint, its a pretty simple thing, I am pretty confident I have a simple solution that would fix this.

10/20/2010 1:16:02 AM

South Finland

Best thing is, it seems that there are people who just loves greenies, great! (and sorry dad, orange rulez too!!!)

Anyway, if anyone is interested to see more pics of Arnold´s 1106 lb squash, I posted some pics to Photo Gallery.

-Kaarina

10/20/2010 3:23:25 AM

South Finland

Few pics in Iwan´s diary also:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=148240

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=148241

10/20/2010 3:25:27 AM

Picton,ON ([email protected])

I have a few comments.

First, there is no question genetically, if a squash is a squash even if it doesn't meet the colour rule. I am the champion of squmpkins. I have grown more off colour squash than most. My 1132* for example was deemed a pumpkin and exhibited that way. However, it is genetically a squash and registered on the AGGC as such. I continue to grow these questionable colour lines, because they grow very heavy fruit! Even if Ned's had been judged a pumpkin from a colour rule stand point, geneticly it is still a squash.

I support the judges decision in Cooperstown, although i agree with Glenn from the pictures it seems questionable at least. The minimal striping allowed in the rules refers to striping in the base of the cracks of the ribs, not on the tops of the ribs.

As far as the Rule is concerned, I believe it needs to be left "as is", to encourage solid colour purity in squash genetics. Guinness agrees with our definition as it stands today.

On another note, the Orange jacket is not a GPC award either. It is awarded each year by the Port Elgin Pumpkinfest. They have chosen only to recognize GPC weighed fruit for that award, However the GPC really doesn't have anything to do with that either.

I want to Congratulate Arnold Horde as the current leader for the Green jacket and Ned Sandercock as the current leader as the GPC squash leader.

10/20/2010 7:06:17 AM

Indiana

John,

"As far as the Rule is concerned, I believe it needs to be left "as is", to encourage solid colour purity in squash genetics."

With all due respect, I think this would be a real mistake. Not only would this cause a genetic quagmire, but it would be the same as saying that guinness would not accept the 1725, 1502, 1446, and many other world records because they are not orange enough.

10/20/2010 9:37:02 AM

Port Elgin, Ontario, Canada

Just for clarification purposes, Port Elgin Pumpkinfest has not decided to only recognize GPC weighed fruit for the orange jacket. Biggest pumpkin grown (that we are aware of) each year is awarded the orange jacket for that year.

10/20/2010 9:46:08 AM

Lexington, Ky

Who wants to take charge of the Kinda Green Jacket?! I took a long shot at the Green Jacket this year, never having grown a Squash before however, I was wise enough to choose a seed with genetics that were undeniably green (just in case). To me, the Green Jacket means green, it doesn't have blue, grey or white in it. To me, a squash is 100% green and that's what I was and will continue to shoot for. If you want a Green Jacket, choose a green line and grow the damn thing big!

10/20/2010 10:06:01 AM

canal winchester ohio

How can you say you choose a seed thats undeniably green , that's impossible. I'm guessing from your diary your talking about the 895.
The Hester 895 has thrown deep dark green ( ex. 834 & 848) but it has also thrown lime green,green with white stripes & white spots,blue, blue& gray..etc.
There are a lot of 895 x sibb or self out there & even they don't throw deep green all the time. The 834 Gadbury shows tendencies to throw deep green, but 963 Needham ( 895 x self) throws fruit with a lot of white in it.
Look at the 856 Hester( 895 x sibb)it's thrown 3 pumpkins??
I've grown squash & I luv greenies but it's a guessing game as to what the final product will look like which is why ground rules were laid out concerning the green jacket when it was started.
If the 895 threw a green squash weighing 1300 lbs but had 5% white on it, it's still a squash but are you going to decline the jacket if offered because of the 5% white.
In 2005 Bob's 1063.5 winner looked to have a bluish tint.
in 2006 Brant's 1131 looked to have a blueish grey hue to it.
In 2007 Brad's 1234 had some white stripes on it.
The 1177 was green but it did have some white in it.
And tell me if the current world record is green,blue, or greenish blue?
To me they are all legit squash but under your "To me, the Green Jacket means green, it doesn't have blue, grey or white in it" none of these would fit.
That's why Glen and others laid out the rules when this was started in the winter of 2004. And that's why the rules""........."100% green grey or blue with allowances for the classic white striping and flecking of the old squash lines...not counting areas at the ground level....""
was laid down.

10/20/2010 11:50:53 AM

Honesdale, Pennsylvania

Jeesh I am glad I was watching the Yankees getting their butts kicked and sleeping soundly when this bantering was going on. I thank my supporters for the comments but we really not take this thing personally. I grew the 1177 Haist because I had seen other "squash" grown from it and never once heard that its characterisics were other than that of a "squash". I guess I wasn't wise enough to grow one with the dark green lines. My fruit certainly conforms to the GPC color rules for squash without a question. If anything the ribs are green. Some of the lighter higher portions are to a degree lighter from the cantaloping going on as well as some grey. It is what it is. I did not paint it guys I grew it. Is it what the "G" Jacket committe looks for. No. I never was feeling the love from the G Committee about my squash and comments like "I wonder who judged that a squash" are pretty self explanatory on ones thoughts of it. I am not sure how you can support the judges decision in Cooperstown and agree with Glenn and call it questionable at least. I think the G committee was glad that there was a heavier all green squash grown from Arnold Horde and they did not have to consider something with some stripes in it. There were probably ones lighter than mine that were being considered above the 1083. Congratulations Arnold on your squash. It is a beauty. I am happy to have finally grown something over 1000 pounds and I am content and confident that its a squash according to the GPC which is what we set out to grow. If anyone knows where I can get a lighter green jacket with some grey stripes let me know. I am in.

10/20/2010 12:10:05 PM

Lexington, Ky

What I was trying to get across where my own personal feelings about the green jacket, what I would have to grow in order to personally feel good about it if I lucked into it. I was well aware that the Green Jacket award favored true greenies even though the award kinda follows the GPC definition. Also, I am reasonably convinced that it's harder to grow a true greenie to size than those of questionable color.

I've never had a conversation with anyone associate with the Green Jacket award but I honestly believe the intent behind the award was to acknowledge true green specimens. I purposely grew a squash this year with the Green Jacket in mind, that's why I stayed away from the 1177 and the other lines that have been questioned in the past. I have never heard a color argument over the 895 Hester offspring.

Would I refuse the Green Jacket Award if I grew a squash with 5% white? Absolutely. I'm not just saying that to counter huffs question either, I really mean that. Personally, I would be disappointed to grow anything but a true greenie, simply because that's what I want to grow.

I grew two squash plants last year and had fruit estimating in the 500 pound range on both plants. I would have easily won the squash award at the local weigh off but I chose to leave them in the patch because neither of them were true greenies. There was no way that I would have felt good about that award because of the personal way I felt about squash color, no one would have been none the wiser. Matter of fact, the award went unclaimed last year.

And before someone fires back and says "I thought you said you've never grown a squash before".....last year I grew two plants that had squash genetics but they didn't turn out to be squash in my opinion.
To me, squash are undeniably green. Thank goodness I'm not on the Green Jacket committee!

10/20/2010 1:18:03 PM

Lexington, Ky

I like what Ned stated, not to take this thing personally. Certification and governing body? Heck, it's just a jacket with some bragging rights, right?

10/20/2010 1:22:40 PM

canal winchester ohio

Hoss if you grow 2-3 squash plants every year I would be willing to bet you might get a all green absolutely no color fruit about 10% of the time. It's like pumpkins, you never know what may pop out.

10/20/2010 1:24:18 PM

Salem, NY

Come on guys.....Green is green! Ned's squash was a true squash! It was beautiful! He deserves a green jacket!

10/20/2010 7:55:29 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

This arguement is academic, Arnold grew the heaviest squash this year according to the existing rules, end of story.

10/20/2010 9:33:49 PM

Cornelius, Oregon

In my best Kermit the Frog voice....... "It's not easy being green..."

10/21/2010 1:06:58 PM

Lexington, Ky

LMAO @ Brett!

10/21/2010 1:30:56 PM