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Connecticut

As I develop ideas for what participants in the “1385 Jutras Clone Experiment” should document I am looking from input from other growers. The basic idea behind this study is to have the same plant genetics grown in different parts of the country to investigate what differences may exist.

While the final weight, % to chart, shape and color are all important I am trying to think of ideas that protect against crop failure, but any ideas you have would be appreciated. I have some of my own ideas but I want to see what other people think of so that I can get a better group of sample questions together.

So, feel free to post some question that you think may fit this study and help everyone get a better understanding of how these control plants behave in different environments.

Thanks,

-Matt

4/19/2010 1:06:33 PM

Fresno, CA

whether they go organic or chemical with pesticides
how many sq feet/plant
whether they use chlorinated water straight out of the tap
whether plants get full sun all day

4/19/2010 3:10:47 PM

South East

It would have be grown several times on each location, next to that each grower would have to treat them exactly the same. And they would have to be grown on almost identical soil.

You want to see how the same plant genetics are grown in diffrent enviroment and what diffrences there are.

If any of the first things i mention are off then everthing that happens could be chanse.

things like: diffrent fertilizer by diffrent growers, diffrent soil, diffrent timing of fertilization, diffrent pesticides and fungicides. Diffrent watering schedule. Shades areas. Grower mistakes. Plant size.

All of these wil influence the end result and they wil have nothing to with the geograhic location nor genetics.

So with all these variables you will not see how the plants behave in diffrent enviroments, but how the plants behave in the hands of diffrent growers.

Although an intresting concept, i think its a very hard experiment to execute proper.

4/19/2010 10:22:38 PM

South East

In hot and humid climate like where we grow (southern state) plants wil suffer more and fruit wil not grow as long. Plants have less hours of sunlight, leafs wil burn faster even with misting and the fruit wil slow down considerable after 50 days. Theres what you would find if your plant would be grown in the south.

4/19/2010 10:24:36 PM

Deer Park WA

Ok if I had a bunch of clones I was sending out to run statistical analaysis I would ask at least the following:

Latitude and Longitude of each grower will give you basic climate data.

Average summer time temp in season (high and low)

Average last & first frost date, huge factor by geography

Soil sample results, spring or fall dont make it too hard just get the basics of soil structure, Ph, fertility, etc.

Organic or chemical grower

Early & late season protection (clotches, hoop houses remay etc)

fertilizer/fungicide regimine (again dont make it too hard on the growers).

Heating cables yes/no

Soil amendments in fall/spring, cover crops

Till or no till

Bury vines, all or some

Growing pattern

Feet of fruit grown out from stump

Chant or pray to whatever punkin God you worship

Endless list the more data you collect and the better chance of finding out what makes these thing be big or World Class. Best of luck with your experiment.

4/19/2010 10:55:00 PM

Deer Park WA

Oh and of course I would assume each grower you sent to had at least 5 years previous experience and had grow over say... 1-K so you know they are intermediate to advanced growers with the common sense to plant in full to partial sun, water when necessary, proper pruning practices and cultural practices... On and on

4/19/2010 11:01:22 PM

Back Yard

A difficult experiment to monitor without one or more constants other than the plant itself. To compare the treatment, soil conditions and tempuratures from one growers patch to the next on an identical plant will be difficult to say the least.

Matt, you are a very dedicated researcher!

4/19/2010 11:38:30 PM

Connecticut

Everyone, thanks for the input. I agree even with identical plant material there are a lot of other variables. However, I think by instituting at least one control (the actual plant material in this case) will reduce some of the variability to some degree. Another way would be to increase the sample size but this is not an option with only a limited amount of clones.

1tonorange1 thanks for the comments, I try to develop a solid plan before I begin the actual research and I hope this shows in the results. (But this is not always the case.) Simply put the propagation trials reached a point that I got a few more clones that I planned on growing so thought way not share them so others can grow a 1385 Jutras and the entire community can gain knowledge about how these plant behave given the same staring material.

I am looking forward to what comes of this study and I hope others are also.

-Matt

4/20/2010 9:11:40 PM

Las Cruces NM

Nice comments. A must for all experiments is to identify and measure all the different stimuli. Ideally, you would want to vary only one stimuli, but that isn’t possible here. So you’ll need a very large number of growers so you can capture at least some of the same consistant stimuli (unless you can get all to grow a certain way). Most all growers will bury stems, many will use same amendments and schedule, many will have similar soil. The more stimuli you can keep constant, the better when analysis comes. Insist on logs and measurements (provide template for consistency) and monitor all what you can’t control like:
1)    Daily weather/climate to include, rainfall, wind, clouds, daytime and nightime temp etc. It not just lat and long as there are microclimates everywhere.
2)    Amount of light was touched upon (i.e., full sun), but should not only be hours but intensity of both direct and ambient light.

It is all about quantifying (i.e., numbers) and isn't going to be an easy undertaking -- dedication required!

PS, Clones are rather mirror images as a rule, but I have heard that may not true with AGs which totally baffles me, and hence I woud look forward to the outcomes!

4/21/2010 12:14:26 AM

Ohio

Im getting a little off track here but would like to add this question that Im curious about, what is the biggest pumpkin grown from a clone that has hit the scale?

From what I have seen over the years , and I think this is just some of the same reasons for why you are growing the 1385 clones also Matt
(I could be wrong though,,lol,,wouldn't be the 1st time,,ha!), is that not many clones have really been grown for competition, but more to using them in cross's for the following years genetics to grow.

The only clones that come to mind for me (with out looking on the AGGC) is what Thadd Starr has grown, he grew a 800 plus pounder I think off a 225 Leland seed, and he and also other growers has had success in growing his clone cross's

Boz

4/21/2010 4:41:28 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Brooks, Cletus & Festus kept their first 1450 Wallace growin in three different years. (I think)!! Maybe they will tell us the results of their own cloning experiment!!! Peace, Wayne
PS...I think they kept it goin for pollen, as you stated!!
PPS...Kudo's to Matt for this Extreme Experiment!!!

4/22/2010 12:20:54 AM

Whidbey Island

That is the problem with our hobby. There are so many variables (see Root-stalker's list above) that you can never be absolutely sure unless you grew hundreds or even thousands across the country and then compare the results. You have to keep everything the same and change only one variable at a time to determine if that made a difference. When you have ten or more variables, then you can't make any reasonable conclusions. Just ask research scientists about statistical significance. Your eyes will glaze over (I know mine did.) before you understand it all.

4/22/2010 11:01:16 PM