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Waterville, Ohio

Hello all,
With the season just about here I was wondering about the use of bio-controls. Recently I purchased some of RTI's Symbios Pumpkin Pro. I was going to order Rootshield for prevention also until I read up on Joel Holland's Bio-endo product which contains 2 strains of trichoderma. Any advice on using the bio-endo vs. Rootshield? Will both give me the same level of protection? Thank you for any advice
-Dave

3/29/2010 8:44:26 PM

Bottom line yes, They will give you the same results if you mix the rootshield and RTI pumpkin pro. But I'm sure the bio-endo also has some other good things in it to.

Martin

3/29/2010 10:30:16 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Dave,
When rootshield is mixed with mycorrhiza, and has no other source of food for it, it will start consuming the mycorrhiza once it becomes active at 55 degrees.
If you mix the two while broadcasting and trenching or burying vines, the rootshield then has different sources of food and will not harm the Mycorrhiza.
I would highly recommend using the two seperately.
You can read more about Effects Of Tricoderma on Mycorrhiza posted on our website, this is a published research paper in our Learning and Resource center.
Purchase whatever Mycorrhiza you feel comfortable with, at least be informed about the different products.

3/29/2010 11:49:02 PM

Waterville, Ohio

Thanks Tom, I had went through your research articles on the effects of tricoderma on mycorrhiza a couple days back and knew that it can be used together symbiotically, but overlooked the area on food source and the temp in which it activates.

3/30/2010 12:33:03 AM

Ohio

ditto to what Tom Said Hertz.

When mycorrhiza was just coming out along with root shield, before we really knew that much about them, Tim Parks did a huge research project that he presented at the OVGPG seminar a few years ago on what fungicides effects has on Mycorrhizae.

Tim had also made the mistake of mixing Root shield and mycorrhiza together in a container and letting it sit untill he needed to use it. But what he found out after he did all his research and when talking to the professionals that he was definitely defeating his purpose on his mycorrhiza .


But then what got me thinking just as i re read this post,, what about Hollands Endo mycorrhiza ,(which I will be using in my seedling pots and planting hole site)
since his Endo mycorrhiza already comes mixed with the 2 species of Trichoderma (just like rootshield has in it) and with it sitting for a while in the package, wouldnt the trichoderma feed off the mycorrhizea and kill it?,,or would this just not make the shelf life shorter on Endo that it would need to be used faster?

3/30/2010 11:57:32 AM

Wi

How can trichoderma in a dry powder spore state eat myco in a dry powder spore state? How can dry powder spores become active?

3/30/2010 12:25:35 PM

Chris,
these studies were not cunducted by me or anyone that I know, they were however conducted by professionals that have no vested interest in product that anyone in the growing community sells.
Tricoderma Grows between pH 4-8; temperatures between 48° - 97° F

3/30/2010 12:56:26 PM

ipswich, ma usa

Ding!! Ding!! Ding!!!!!

3/30/2010 1:25:04 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

opps, I was using my wifes laptop and I was logged in as her.

3/30/2010 1:33:08 PM

Wi

Tom not saying you can't be correct...no problem there at all.

I'd like to see cited research showing that dry or dormant trichoderma eat. If that's the case what does the trichoderma in the root shield container eat? Is the inactive ingredient pythium? That's trichoderma's favorite meal....lol.

3/30/2010 3:15:08 PM

[email protected]

Tom's gotten very good! Well done.

3/30/2010 4:10:09 PM

Frankfort Ohio

Guys as long as the temps are 55 pluss and roots are there for them to attach there are no worries yes if they are in the same bag they can hatch if temps are warm enough you should keep both seprate till they go in the ground that is from the source never mix in the same bag if you donot plan on useing it all uptricorderma die within 6 to 8 months.

3/30/2010 4:22:44 PM

Frankfort Ohio

Oh you should always use you stuff up every season anyhow fresh is always better.

3/30/2010 4:24:19 PM

Deer Park, WI

you need water to "hatch" folks, i dont care what branch you call yours in the animal kindom. NO ONE eats until their hydrated.

3/30/2010 4:30:35 PM

Ohio

I sure wish Tim Parks would chime in on his study, but hes not much of a computer guy,, I know Tom has researched it it a great deal also.

Joze, where did you hear, or find that data out on Mycorrhizea/ Root shield, about it has to be hydrated first?

3/30/2010 5:47:05 PM

Ohio

Not that Im disagreeing with you Joze, but it does make sense for any Fungus to thrive, and thats water/dampness.

3/30/2010 5:51:04 PM

Hmmm didnt know that. Thanks Tom guess I learn something new everyday!

3/30/2010 8:10:18 PM

Deer Park, WI

Brooks- if there's one thing my college tuition paid for, its the fact that all life on earth needs water to thrive. No living entity on this planet can function without water. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this...

No data or heresay necessary...this is a fundamental fact of biology. All life requires water. Fungus and bacteria are unique, when deprived of water, they go into a type of hibernation that allows them to survive dry/harsh conditions. ONLY when temperature and water are ideal will they pop back to life.

Not mixing species is a good preventative measure, though, especially for those that "cannibalize" others like Trichoderma. Atmospheric moisture (humidity) can condense when temps fluctuate, potentially making the environment moist enough to bring the bugs out of hibernation.

If kept dry, cool, and sealed, there's no risk of cannibalization.

4/7/2010 6:52:34 PM