From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Ohio

Explain this

Lets say a Wallace or Rose, Werner, Jutras, Pukos,, grows a pumpkin to say,,( just for a example) 1150 Lbs, and the very first year that seed is grown it grows 2 pumpkins that year ,its first year out, one over 1500 lbs and one over 1300lbs. (Keeping in mind they are the only 2 pumpkins grown that year and both times this seed was grown it grew a monster.)

Now here is my Question,,,, how many growers would be knocking down the doors this year wanting that 1150 seed, lets just say its a Wallace seed? How many would be bubbling the heck out of them, trading great seeds to try to get that 1150 seed, because it was probably sold out at the club seed sale, and since this 1150 seed was sold out growers would then be paying BIG money for this seed at auction?,,, right?,,,, OF COURSE IM RIGHT,,LOL!! This seed would get HUGE ATTENTION! and would be grown the following year ALOT,,,,TELL ME I'm LYING!,,LOL a seed like this with a big HH name that grows 1 over 1500 plus pounds , and the other over 1300 lbs, most everyone(well a good majority) will want that seed to grow the following year!,,,IF IM LYING IM DYING!,,YOU KNOW ITS TRUE,,LOL!! and if the word gets out enough , look out!! that 1150 seed has just became the pumpkin that didnt have very many seeds in it, so you better get one while you can,,LOL!!!

So here's what Im really getting to,,, why is it that people aren't breaking the doors down, talking about, wanting to grow this seed very much,and that seed is the ''1140 Stevens'',,,, 2 out of 2 pumpkins grown this year off this seed, 1 has grown a pumpkin 1543 lbs and anther one was grown over 1300 lbs, that both went HEAVY.
and another seed,,,, the 672 Stevens seed , that seed grew 2 monsters also this year, 1 over 1500lbs and another just shy of 1300lbs).

2/10/2010 4:48:45 PM

Ohio

So lets take this 1140 Stephens seed for a minute but keep the seed itself exactly the same, only lets just make a minor adjustment and take off the Stephens last name of that seed, but this time for fun, lets put a HH name behind it like a Jutras,Werner, Wallace, Daletas. but keeing in mind this is the exact same seed, not changing a thing about it but the name.
Now do you think it would go for 35.00 dollars at auction with a Wallace,Jutras, Werner, Urena name with that kind of back ground on it , and what it grew that first year out? . NO WAY WOULD IT GO FOR THAT CHEAP OF PRICE FOR 35 bUCKS!!. EVERRRRR,,,LOL!!! But that Stephens lots did last week at auction,, why is that?,,lol
That 35 bucks that was spent for that Stephens lot at the last auction was the best 35 bucks I have ever seen spent for a seed of that calibor. And Dave (Venariy) thinks so too, cause hes the one that gave me the idea about that seed,,lol


Now heres my other Question, why arnt people breaking the doors down to grow these seeds like the 1140 or say the 672???,,,SERIOUSLY!,,LOL,,, Ill tell you why, because of something we all know of is called the name brand seed,,lol. THE NAME,,,,,,

Not taking anything away from the popular growers at all,Im really truly not.,, but just trying to show a good example of why other great seeds are not grown. Because believe me,, I do find myself doing the exact same thing most of the times when it comes to picking what seeds to grow and its usually always a seed that has popular name behind it

2/10/2010 4:49:17 PM

Ohio

Do you have your Stevens seeds???,,,LOL!!

Dave, sorry I let the cat out of the bag before you could buy anymore seeds cheap, Im hoping Chris will make up for that for you for this Rant I put up about his seeds,,LOL

2/10/2010 4:58:45 PM

Ohio

Chris STEVENS , sorry I mis spelled your last name in that rant,, Im just a ole hick from West Virgina that doesnt know how to spell sometimes,,,LOL

2/10/2010 4:59:48 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Brooks it is actually quite a compliment to the HH that folks break the door down to get one of their seeds, it's not logical but, but it's been happenning forever. Look at our seed sale, I have 3 different 1370 x 1068 crosses listed and the response was lukewarm. What would the response have been if I listed an actual 904 Stelts? On the seed exchange someone posted they were after Werner genetics, another wanted Wallace seeds. They wanted a name, not a seed. Not taking anything away from anyone, it's like buying a real Gucci handbag instead of a knock off.
You may notice I post a relatively unknown seed on the Genetics message board from time to time. It's only to show there are lots of options out there, anyone, I mean anyone can find a top knotch seed if they want to.

2/10/2010 5:05:58 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Sorry Brooks, after reading your 1st post I thought you were making a general observation. After hitting "post reply" I realized you were going in another direction.

2/10/2010 5:38:03 PM

Wi

Disclaimer: This was not a paid advertisement by myself or anyone affiliated with...myself.....lol.

2/10/2010 5:44:49 PM

Long Island,New York

Brooks...The Stevens seeds don't have the big propaganda machine behind it.....marketing power is key......

2/10/2010 5:57:53 PM

DeWitt, Iowa

Where do i send my bubble?.....

2/10/2010 6:12:46 PM

Ohio

I think ya gotta get one at auction Grant,, right now they are going for about 35 bucks a lot,,,,,, well atleast they was,,,HAAA!

2/10/2010 6:16:28 PM

DeWitt, Iowa

yup thats what i figured. lol i was being half serious half sarcastic. It would be cool, but i figured it wouldn't work. lol ahaha but brooks love reading your posts!

2/10/2010 6:22:32 PM

DeWitt, Iowa

I think Brooks deserves a 1140 due to the fact that this post may stir up some serious interest in the seed.....
Grown off an Iowa seed! C/P

2/10/2010 6:36:36 PM

Minnesota

Okay, I have to ask who is Chris Stevens?

2/10/2010 6:46:55 PM

milford, CT,

Brooks..look at it this way...Does the plant or Seed know it is being grown by a heavy hitter...NO!!! Then why does it matter who makes the cross...Seeds like the 1140 Stevens...1116 Traylor..991 Urena (Before this year).etc..show this. BUT...I am like many others...given the choice... we often pick the HH seed over the rest even if the cross is the same...I am trying to get away from that and grow my own crosses but when you only grow a few plants every chance to improve the odds of growing a big one is hard to pass up.Mark

2/10/2010 6:52:08 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Mr. Boz, sir...(and I want to apologize up front)!! LOL If yer theory is correct, then next year's pkn seed auctions...which, as you stated...is the life blood of most clubs...will raise $1K...instead of $4K or more!!! Without the HH seeds in an auction, most (okay, at least several) clubs will go down!!! I truly hope that the HH's keep on being generous w/ their seeds!!! Peace, Wayne

2/10/2010 7:15:00 PM

Preston CT

Yeah who is chris and this minnesota chad guy? I can only grow 3 decent plants and have enough seeds for years to come...I am trying to grow my own like mark says...

2/10/2010 7:25:29 PM

Linden,PA

I am happy I have some of Chris Stevens seeds.
I also think some of the Bosworth seeds from 2009 might also be sleepers.

2/10/2010 8:15:45 PM

Cedar Lake, IN.

Those who do the homework know what's what. Those who want it bad enough will do the homework.
Who is Chris and Chad? This was my first year growing and I know who these growers are. I should have waited for this thread to come out it would have saved me countless hours of research.

2/10/2010 8:26:03 PM

Ohio

Chris Stevens?,,, never heard of em,,,

2/10/2010 8:36:31 PM

[email protected]

We marketed Chris's seeds for our auction but it'll take another stellar season to really make it. Chris knows what to do.

2/10/2010 9:57:16 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

WI..?.. Is Chris located in some electronic gizzzmo. ;)..hey Wiz n Biz, notice the zzzz'ss. Great job Chris, I bet you're known now thanks to Brooks.

2/10/2010 11:43:46 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

We put up some different ones in our auction; good seed is good seed no matter who grew them. We had Chris Stevens seeds in lot #14...

HH get that way because they can get the results out of the genetics, and we all want the best... or enough of us want the name and the results, we seek out that. Nothing against it, there's a lot of work in getting those results. And a lot of kind and generous HH, that share. Time, experience, advice, and seed. Kudos. Thank you.

Sleeper seeds, all for them! 2009 I grew a few that were NOT mainline seeds... didn't regret what I was dealt. More being mulled this year... The explosion of new growers and new records this year, great. Onward and upward for 2010.

2/11/2010 1:53:42 AM

Rhode Island

geez brooks i guess you wont be needing any of those growers seeds for next season.
those growers whose names you mentioned worked very hard at this hobby to build a good reputation.
the desirability for their crosses did not happen by just talking about it.
reputation is everything in this hobby.always was, always will be. thats just the way it is.
when given a choice most will pick a seed from a grower whose name they recognize. especially if they are paying for it at auction.

2/11/2010 8:04:16 AM

Ohio

OHHHH BOY Pap! not you too!!,,,, Im not downing any of the HH growers or there seeds!!
Im merely trying to explain why other seeds are not grown, Im not telling anyone not to grow anyone seeds, nor am I saying they dont work hard for there cross's or trying to up their reputation.

Im done posting for a long long while I think, people take my posts way out of context!,, have a great year everyone and any seed that you may grow, grow it huge!

2/11/2010 8:46:12 AM

Cedar Lake, IN.

Brooks, I'm a first year grower and got suck in to the fever. I now understand how involved the "sport" can be. These heavy hitters start to become bigger than life. The understanding of what it takes to do what they have done. Well let me just say, they have mad skills.
To have one of their seeds is like having a baseball signed be Micky Mantle. It just feels good to have one. Yes, there are so many good seeds being over looked, that we can buy at a fair price. As for me I can't touch the price these seeds are going for.
We have eight weeks to go before the madness starts. Time passes by faster when we get stired up, Thanks Brooks.

2/11/2010 10:36:25 AM

Bristol R.I. USA

Plenty of great genetics out there the best I feel is yet to be discovered. Many of the top growers have made a reputation of growing monsters because of there hard work and attention to detail and pushing the limits of fertilization and newer techniques (soil soup and co2) Call them pioneers. All these things are important when trying to get that monster to grow. Whats not mentioned is the fact that ,many of these HHers do lose a significant amount of Pumpkins trying out some newer techniques and the shear amount of plants that they grow can almost certainly guarantee that some will not make it do to disease or splits. When a newer grower gets the bug its not common for him to ask for every seed on the planet to get the best genetics. (I've certainly done that) And who do they think of? The heavy hitters who are contributors of the hobby and who are seen all over the newsletters and internet. The brand name seeds as Brooks calls it are usually the best growers seeds that recieve a whole bunch of attention. The reason why. The reputation of the grower who has proven time an time again to produce the hoggs!

2/11/2010 12:14:00 PM

Cedar Lake, IN.

Now that it's out. To those who have the 1140 & 672.5 Stevens make sure your soil conditions are where they need to be. You'll thank yourself for it. I only have one year of experience so take that for what it's worth.

2/11/2010 2:08:33 PM

Nekoosa, Wisconsin

Excellent post Brooks. Some very enlightening thoughts. I have been at pretty much all the seed auctions so far, and I have been amazed at how much the non proven seeds from HH go for. I’ll take what Brooks said one step further. I would argue that the seeds of HH should actually be devalued. Since they are such good growers it’s more their technique and skills than the genetics of the seeds they plant. The better the grower the more the devaluation. As an extreme example. How about a 1500 pounder and 1400 pounder grown by a first year grower on a patch of pure sand with no irrigation. He has read a book and knows how to cover the flowers. He cross’s the two pumpkins with each other. A very well known heavy hitter also grows 1500 and 1400 pounder grown in a nice sandy loam soil with a perfect nutrient profile and irrigated every day or two. He also crosses the two pumpkins with each other. Both are within 5 miles of each other. Which seed has more potential? Which will go for more money at auction? I don’t understand the reputation argument at all. The genes inside the seed don’t know who grew it. Lol

This is not meant to be a rip on heavy hitters (I wish I was one). Just an observation on the craziness of seed pricing.

Don’t leave Brooks. You have some of the most interesting post’s here.

2/11/2010 2:33:51 PM

Brooks - You made it quite clear that you were making an innocent post: "Not taking anything away from the popular growers at all,Im really truly not.,". It's not your fault if pap felt threatened and acted offended. Stick around buddy.

2/11/2010 3:59:37 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Brooks was just trying to bring attention to a few seeds that might otherwise be overshadowed by some of the big name seeds. Keep posting Brooks, wouldn't be the same without you.

2/11/2010 4:16:14 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Brooks, I understand what you are saying and by no means do the majority of folks here feel that you were making negative comments directed to anyone or their seeds.

I've done some great crosses over the past couple of years but nobody is gonna grow them except for the other Boyz locally....attach a heavy hitter name to the end of the same crosses that I've done....and they would hit dirt by everyone and their dog....

No worries Brooks...your a good guy and very well liked here...

2/11/2010 5:17:47 PM

Western PA

Brooks,

I definitely get what your saying, I have seen the same thing that is why I am always so AMAZED at how high the aution prices are on first year seeds!!

all these people dropping down 100 or 200 bucks on first year seeds are just buying names. there are plenty of seeds out there with Identical genetics which different names that are FREE for a bubble.

Just about all of us have potential world record setting seeds sitting in piles in our spare bedrooms. We just need a great grower to grow em!

The genetics just seem so good nowadays, everybody has great seeds in there name, but they want to buy the ones with somebody elses name on it!

(BRAND NAME SEEDS)

2/11/2010 6:00:05 PM

Ohio

Thanks guys, Im not going to be a little cry baby and say I will never post again, cause you guys know that would just be impossible for me to do, especially on one of my favorite web sites that has ever been seen the net!.

Im just gonna tone it down a bit and be a lurker for a while, just gonna step back and take a break for a while is all.

2/11/2010 6:43:17 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

Brooks,
Your post's are very valuable to most of us here. New to heavy hitter, we all like them.(come on PAP you know you do)If ya want take a break that's OK, just spend it finding us more SEEDS..

2/11/2010 9:56:01 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

Brooks I enjoy your posts however I do feel that your taking Paps comments a bit to heart. My question to you is are you gonna be planting any of these unproven seeds? You throw a tantrum at Paps comment and use 2 R.I. growers (him being one of them) as examples and expect him not to make a comment about it. There are plenty of good genetics out there. What Pap was saying is that the growers that you mention have gained a reputation for growing heavy for a while. It's only natural for someone to want to grow a seed that they planted in order to grow that Big one. Not to mention Pap Was also saying that it is only natural to want to get a seed from a grower that has the proven Name such as Wallace, Jutras , Rose, Pukos. Why? Because they trust the grower that grew the seed they trust that the grower pollinated with what he claimed he pollinated with. The reputation is everything in the Hobby. While I agree that the name does attract, I also understand that the name of the grower is something I also trust. It's way to late to say your not gonna be a cry baby. My question is What are you gonna plant and why?

2/12/2010 10:03:12 AM

[email protected]

Brooks
SUCK IT UP ALREADY

2/12/2010 3:06:06 PM

Ohio

Just came out of retirement for a minute, cause I cant let this one go,,lol

Oh boy, where do I start Kenny,, first off, before you type anything, please know exactly what your typing about, and that means re read the thread again. But for you maybe 3 times might be better seeing that you might be a little slow to understand what this post was really all about in the first place.

and second off, not only did I mention 2 RI Growers as a ''EXAMPLE'' for their seeds, I also mention 1 OHIO growers as a ''EXAMPLE!!'' and 1 PA grower as a ''EXAMPLE'' for their seeds, so what are you getting at about me mentioning 2 RI growers?

Is the Ohio grower or the PA grower or even the NY grower pissed off I used their names and their seeds as a example? ,, ummmmm lets see here,,, NOPE! , and do you want to know why?,,,, ITS Because they understand what this thread is about, and that IT ISNT no where near the direction you are trying to take it in, not even close!

And why I mentioned the HH names?? Well to be honest, it was for growers just like you to understand where I was going with this thread, for you to understand it more clear.

But Ill stop here and now Kenny, cause I can, and would make you look really silly if I continue to type, cause like you are talking about reputations in your last post, that I didnt mention anything about in this thread at all,,,, well lets just say I wouldn't want to put a dent in your reputation.

And not that I dont think I owe you a explanation on what Im gonna grow, but go to the AGGC and look at how man UNPROVEN SEEDS I HAVE GROWN.

This good enough for ya Kenny?

2/12/2010 3:21:09 PM

Cedar Lake, IN.

It's snow covered and cold outside. But these threads really warm things up.

2/12/2010 5:16:27 PM

Bristol R.I. USA

lol Brook. Short retirement....But hell...I like you Brooks... You're alright with me Bro.

2/12/2010 6:08:58 PM

Long Island,New York

Brooks...you're always welcome in the squash forum.....lol

2/12/2010 6:52:48 PM

Joliet, IL

boz,
this is a message board for discussion. it is an open forum for opinions. state your opinion and let the chips fall where they may. your point is valid and i have had that same conversation about your topic with many growers. it is in no way an insult to the top growers. if anything, it should be a compliment. anyone can sit on the sidelines and just read the posts here on bp.com. you my friend have always had the stones to speak your mind, so keep talking. it is always refreshing and entertaining to read your posts. it would be awful boring around here without the Boz.

2/12/2010 8:48:31 PM

Port Elgin, Ontario, Canada

oh man - I so wanna say something but will instead just waste a post to not say anything at all

2/13/2010 12:41:55 AM

Anchorage, Alaska

It is a great thing for this sport to have consistent champions to rally behind. I love the familiar faces, and haven't we all enjoyed our poster girl?

Can you imagine how mechanized the sport would be if we all grew the seeds ONE person picked as the best crosses? Compute, compute. Man, the fun part about this hobby is in the relationships with other growers. We like to meet at the fence to talk shop and pick our favorite seeds.

Go Werner! Go Wallace!

2/13/2010 1:51:59 AM

norway , maine

shazzy is 100% corectamundo...and he mentioned your stones lol...and if you stopped posting this place would turn into the squash forum

2/13/2010 2:48:08 PM