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Ohio

I have seen over the years alot of unproven seeds '''seeds that havent seen dirt yet! '''' being sold at auctions for as much as 150.00 and up and the prices for these seeds dont seem to be coming down in the future ether. Its like playing the stock market, ya hope it grows big the following year,,, instead of it being a flop.

Don't get me wrong on this little rant ,,, this is a great way for money to be made for the clubs and their weigh offs, with out a doubt! ya need the auctions to raise money for the weigh offs and to keep the clubs going, NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT! YA NEED EM!) How many seed auctions does one single club need in between seasons? do some clubs go over board a bit and maybe get little greedy? (I make this for a later rant later)



But I got to thinking,(which really takes alot of my effort and body strength,cause I dont do it very well or often,,LOL), but usually when I think auction,, I think ,,, Yea!,,I'm gonna get a great deal on something that I have wanted!!,,, but then have to come to the realization a seed auction isn't anything close to that of other type auctions,,well at least not for great deals on proven pumpkin seeds that is,, your gonna pay for a good proven seed, thats for sure.

2/9/2010 10:21:03 AM

Ohio

But if your a regular grower (which most of us are), that makes a regular paycheck, to make a regular living, well,, a seed auction will be a great place to find a seed, but it probably isn't going to be the place to find a great deal on a great seed that atleast I can afford in making a modest living,,lol,cause more then likely if you want a great proven seed at a auction, go to the bank first, and fill out a loan application ,and dont forget to put your references in there, and lie to them on how much you really make a year!,,LOL!!!!!

when seeing a seed auction that will be coming up, first thing that comes to my mind is ''BIG NAMED PROVEN TEASER SEEDS '' '' that I will never have a chance in hell on bidding high enough on to get one, but I can dream though,,ha ,
When I see the 1385's 1161's ,998 Pukos and 1068 Wallace for auction I almost know that seeds like that only end up in a selected few hands,, one is a great growing buddy of mine,,, Eddy the Iceman, he usally has a great shot at buying/ winning the big named seeds!!,,,LOL. well almost every time!,, IF IM LYING IM DYING RIGHT? !! hA!!..
I just dont think a seed auction is a place your going to get a great deal on a seed, but a great place to show your support to help give the clubs help in raising funds that they need.
But there are some exceptions on this I think in getting some great deals, Dave (Venariy) got a hell of a buy on a 1140 Stephens seed the other night for under 35 bucks,,lol,, Best buy of the year in my opinion! Sorry Dave, had to throw that in there, Ill talk to Chris and hopefully he will give you a unlimited growing supply of that seed since you like it so well and will grow it to 1800lbs ,,lol,, (but I have a rant on that seed later also,lol)

2/9/2010 10:21:29 AM

Ohio

Do you think getting a great deal on seeds at auctions anymore are few and far between? Your just not gonna get that great deal on a 998 Pukos or a 1385 seed anymore,,lol!!. Only way to get a seed like this is to bid on a unproven seed in hopes you played your stocks right by seeing what it does the following year,,lol.

I think where most of the high dollar seed cost we have been seeing, especially the non proven seeds and what they are selling for,,, (ones that hasnt even seen dirt yet,) Is it because its the same guys week after week buying these seeds up at these auctions on a regular basis at really high prices that keep them high?. It always seems to be the same 5 to 10 people that is always the bidders at these auctions every week. (and its the same non bidders, non auctioneers that shouldnt really be talking,,like mostly new growers who talk during the auction that have no idea or know Sam Diddlie about the seed that is being sold, LOL,, TELL ME IM LYING,,LOL) '' But Us 'sometimes' poor folk will never have a chance at these type of seeds ever, unless we can get them directly from the grower.

Im not putting down the auctions at all, cause we need these for our fund raisers, with out them and the BIG BIDDERS we wouldn't have much of any prize money for our weigh offs and clubs. And for them big time bidders is where alot of the thanks go to to make the big prize money possible., I guess Im just putting out a rant for us poor folks that wont ever get a chance to bid at one of these auctions on this big time seeds in years to come.,,lol.. How about giving us poor folk a shot at some of these seeds,,,,LOL!!!!

just a rant is all this is.. nothing more or less about the auctions, AND we do need them. Hope this isn't that long to bore ya to much.haaa!

Boz

2/9/2010 10:21:54 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Geez Brooks...I actually understand what you are talking about this time.

I've noticed (especially this year) that first and second year seeds (the unproven or unplanted) are selling for as much or more than proven seeds did just a few years ago. That is really hard to understand, especially when, for a bubble and a few stamps, you can almost always get those unproven or unplanted seeds from a grower with the promise to plant them...and that is where part of the problem starts.

It appears that too often now, the seed auctions are being treated as the futures board on the stock market and that is effecting the prices on the boards. Great for the clubs and auctions that are raising money for weigh-offs, but not so great for the average Joe (Brooks) that may want to pick up a few seeds and help out a club.

2/9/2010 11:06:53 AM

Nova Scotia

I don't even look at the auctions anymore. I try to guess at what could be the next great thing and either buy it at a reasonable cost from a dealer like p & p or howard dill, ect.. If not there I try the grower. Which surprized me this year with a 1042 Van Kooten (which I never even bothered requesting as thinking no way in H3ll). So as long as you Don't become a seed hoarder once and a while you'll get luck not 1385 lucky but you never know

2/9/2010 11:20:04 AM

Brooks, a couple points. First, you're correct on the value of unproven seeds, which I have marveled at the past few auction seasons. But, I am always happy to see that from the clubs’ perspectives.

Second, in terms of the price of proven seeds versus what you’d expect at a “normal” auction. If you go to an equipment auction, you should be looking to get a great deal. Some folks still prefer to pay retail at such auctions, and we refer to such people as knuckleheads.

However, there is a key difference. At an equipment auction, you’re buying equipment that you could presumably buy at home depot, a tractor dealership, etc. They haven’t quit making orbital sanders or hay rakes. But if you go to, say, a coin auction, it’s not like they’re still making 1909 S-VDB Lincoln cents. Their rarity drives the price above what you’d pay for a penny at a bank.

2/9/2010 11:54:28 AM

For proven seeds, the auction more closely resembles a coin auction than an equipment auction. Both are still “normal” auctions, but the expectations on price are different going in. Add to that one additional factor, in that for coins, there were a certain number minted, and they are for the most part stable in number. But a good pumpkin seed is necessarily destroyed to try and realize its value (it is planted). Thus, while you have about the same number of 1909 S-VDB cents in existence today as there were ten years ago, the same cannot be said of a 1068 Wallace or 998 Pukos.

One final point, and it is one you brought up several times in your post: the purpose of the auction. I have never had a hard time forking over a few extra bucks on seeds at auctions, because it’s for a good cause. I have seen some people get pretty torqued at myself and others for bidding up seeds, and I guess that’s just human nature. My point has always been, if you really want that seed, pry another five dollars out of your wallet. It isn’t as though there aren’t plenty of good alternate seeds out there, and it isn’t that any one of us, whether we pay a mint for a seed or not, have a RIGHT to any particular seed, other than our own.

I agree this can be discouraging for some, but that is why I am a big fan of the GVGO raffle. This gives a shot at some nice seeds for people who cannot afford to fork out the big bucks at auctions.

That’s my two or three cents’ worth.

-Neal

2/9/2010 11:54:44 AM

Lexington,IN

I look at the auctions results and it amazes me. When I started my attempt at growing AG's back in 2000, I bought a few seeds at auction, my favorite from PGPGA, a bag with several nice seeds and a cup of dirt from the Checkon's patch. Which I still have somewhere. I think I won that auction for around $150. A package today with seeds equal to those I got back in 2000 would probably go for $800 I bet. Of course supply and demand play a big part in high prices, so do deep pockets. I ended up selling my AG seeds, on ebay in 2004. Due to the fact I gave AG's a shot, more than once without any great success and I wanted the seeds to go to someone who would use them, don't think they did but that's another story that causes prices to rise. I bet there are seed collectors out there that have thousands of seeds that thier entire family could not possibly grow in thier lifetime. And they add to it every year. It seems to be OK to do this in the AG community, but you go and try to sell your collection and watch people come after you with claws out! Like they did me in 2004. (There is a thread on here from that time if you want to look it up.) Not to mention the hate emails. Anyway, I think the bottom line is this, the more money you have and are willing to spend the better you are going to do in ANY hobbie. Wheather it's AG's or racing slot cars, there are always people out there that have more money to throw at it than most have, thus keeping prices high. Well that was a long rant, see what you started Brooks :) It is boring being snowed in! Think I'll go see what's going on in chat...

2/9/2010 12:02:39 PM

Ohio

LOL Glenn,,, Who Dat you mean you actually understand me this time,, hahaha!
For some reason, I know exactly what I want to say, but when it comes to typing it out , it types out not even close to the way I wanted to explain it by mouth ,,LOL (Try to figure that last statement I made Glenn!!,,LOL)

Neal, well said ole bud, the coin perspective vs a equipment auction(which you and I have been to zillions) is completely different from one another, and I never could put a handle on the difference(in my mind) on how to compare the two untill you posted . You really made that clear for this dummy to understand that, and I mean it, you made a light click on. Im glad you posted that Neal.

Another thing along the same lines as you was talking about proven seeds -vs- the S-VDB Penny and another different way to look at it,, is take a 1068 Wallace today for instance, that is still worth a shit load of money at auction, but will drop in value ALOT over the next 2 or 3 years while that Penny's market is still going up. All seeds will start to lose value, mainly because we are growing bigger pumpkins off other seeds now besides off the famous 1068 and also the fact that germination rate can be almost nil once the seed gets so old.

But I 100% agree with you on spending that extra 5 bucks if you really want that seed. Its the big spenders of the auctions (and little spenders also) who makes the clubs events and weigh off prize money what it is today.

I really like the GVGO seed raffle, it gives the growers a equal chance to win, especially for the grower who might not have 550 bucks for a 1385 Jutras that they normally could not afford.

2/9/2010 12:50:36 PM

Port Elgin, Ontario, Canada

Hi Brooks - I am probably one of the culprits you are referring to - my only purpose for buying seeds at auction is to support the cause - half the time I don't even know what I have bought until I receive my bubble. I am not out to hurt anyone or steal a deal but I do see a point in maintaining a "fair market value" for these seeds. When I see a seed going for way less that it has in previous auctions that is when I pipe up usually. As I (and hopefully other clubs) use these average prices as a determining factor when choosing auction/raffle line-ups, setting prices in bazaars etc., it is nice to have the confidence of being able to say - "this seed typically sells for $60" when in reality - as it has been said, if you really wanted to grow the seed you could just send the grower a bubble with a nicely worded note and receive the same seed for no cost besides the postage.

2/9/2010 12:51:18 PM

Nova Scotia

Silly Seeds nice to here of a generouse supporter out there who is trying to help out this sport with his pocket book. But me like most (I assume) do not have money to splurge on the great or not so great seeds. If I win a lotto I'll be there bidding against ya lol

2/9/2010 2:43:33 PM

Ohio

Just like a women Mr. T. they are always spending money and dont even know what they are spending the money on,,,LOL LISA!!

2/9/2010 3:51:02 PM

San Luis Obispo, Ca.

wow!

2/9/2010 5:44:43 PM

Port Elgin Ontario Canada

That's Sally.... I'm Lisa.... lol

2/9/2010 6:22:14 PM

Sacramento, Ca

I'll second everything you said Brooks. The only way us working slobs have a chance at any "name" seeds is to hope the growers of said seed will part with one. I asked several well known growers for seeds this year. Some of them gave me seeds and some of them did not even respond (which I completely understand). Only two big name growers, names everyone would recognize, gave me seeds and for that I am very appreciative. Both of those seeds will be seeing dirt this year.

2/9/2010 7:24:24 PM

Las Cruces NM

Guess I'm like silly seeds and I look at it as donating, vice purchasing. You are in effect suporting your or another worthy club. I know I could have come by the same seed cheaper, but I bid to suporting the cause. To be honest, I already have my (un-proven) line-up so non of the seeds I picked up at auction will hit dirt this year for sure. So to me, I think many of you are missing the point of auctions. but I have more to say on seeds ... so another post

2/9/2010 8:06:54 PM

Las Cruces NM

The hot seed of yesterday will not be the hot seed of tomorrow -- guarenteed! There are many a great crosses being made out there, most will never see dirt because it didn't produce 1500+. Heck, the 998 is an example as it didn't live up to its parents. But someone saw the potential in the 998 parents, planted it, and now its proven. It had hundreds of seeds and thoese were planted making 1000s more -- there are literally more great seeds out there then growers can grow -- to me that is the problem in great seeds are being overlooked. But everyone wants "proven" seed, but think about it, the 998 had to be grown sucessfully several times in the first place to be "proven". Someone had to take that risk (although to some it wasn't a risk). At the same time, plant a proven seed and you could be setting yourself up for a major disapointment -- genetics are just too variable. And you know what, that is what gives AG growers the challange. Just my 2 cents ...

2/9/2010 8:33:12 PM

[email protected]

Funny thread Boz.

Caveat Emptor.

Keep good friends well. NEVER FORGET A FRIEND.

2/9/2010 9:03:18 PM

Wi

What's the rant on 1140 Brooks?

2/9/2010 10:01:53 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

Hey Brooks, I think the problem stems from the fact that for some reason when you see an upcoming seed auction, you happen to think "Yea, I'm going to get a great deal on something that I really wanted". IMHO, deals are and have always been few and far between at seed auctions. It's just not the nature of the seed auctions.
For me, when I see a seed at auction that I REALLY must have, 2 things have already happened; 1)I have exhausted all other seed obtaining avenues, and; 2)I have blown the dust off my check book in preparation to step up to the pump and pay the piper.
How badly do you really want it? BF

2/10/2010 12:05:58 AM

Williamsburg,KY

This was the first year that I bot seeds at an auction. The only reason was.... to support my club. Of course, there were many seeds I wanted but no way to spend that kind of money. I do applaude and Im sure clubs appreicated the high bidders. Wonder what 'they' do with all those seeds? Do you reckon, if you contact them, they would share?

2/10/2010 7:08:34 AM

Rhode Island

usually four types of growers attend seed auctions

TAKE NO PRISONERS BIDDER - has the resources to do it and does not care to get involved with swaps,sending bubbles and/or emails to strangers. these people of good means are the driving force behind all auctions profits.without them our auction pockets would be quite empty

DOES IT TO SUPPORT THE CLUBS BIDDER -some like a joe jutras and eddy z for example-buy seeds at auction to support the different clubs .
im sure they could get the seeds for a phone call or email in most cases, or out bid anyone on the board had they choosen to. bidders like joe and eddy are few and far between.

THE CLOSE BUT FEW CIGARS BIDDER - these lovable growers always seem to get a bid in just vefore the price goes through the roof.

THE PEEPING TOM BIDDER - which accounts for about 80 percent of the audience at these auctions. its a night out to watch the craziness.
most have no intention of spending ten cents but dont have anything else going that night.



pap

2/10/2010 7:42:32 AM

Sioux Falls SD

Seed auction are for one reason ONLY to raise operating money's for the clubs. Your bid is a DONATION to the club, the seed you get is a BONUS, from some grower, given on behalf of the club.
There should never be a bargain at a seed auction.
Cheap seeds come direct from the growers.

2/10/2010 1:16:52 PM

Ohio

EG,

the most money I have ever seen for a seed at auction was 750 bucks I think.
But lets face it though EG, no one is going to donate 700 bucks for say a 500 Bosworth seed and then be happy about they donated, growers also want something in return for the money they are spending (donating).

The growers help out the club auctions and return the club auctions help out the grower.

2/10/2010 5:44:36 PM

Ohio

Pap what about the

''TO LATE BIDDER'' Its a bidder who bids on a seed one minutes after the auctioneer says ''SOLD!''.

These ''TO LATE BIDDERS'' are what I call the make em think Im bidding bidder,,, they are the bidders who I have never ever bid on a seed over 15 bucks at auction. but just wants to bid for the heck of it knowing damn well the seed has already been sold just to see his name up there. HAHAHA! Example below,,

Fuzzy Puss: $455 ?
Brooks B : nice job Eddy!!
AUCTIONERR: SOLD!!!!!1385 JUTRAS , TO EDDY Z FOR 450!!
AUCTIONERR: THIRD AND FINAL CALL FOR 450

2/10/2010 6:03:31 PM

Las Cruces NM

Brooks, not sure you got that TO LATE BIDDER quite right. I was too late on one. It wasn't sold but the sold came up befor my bid. I did notice that typing in the auction is slow and some might have slow connections too. Give them the benefit of doubt. I know it wasn't my motive to make people think I was bidding (could care less), I just messed up and the sold beat my bid to the board ... and thats the breaks. But auctions are what the are, to raise money for the clubs and have fun doing so. Thats it. I do like your "brand name" pitch, I see people do that all the time. I would hate to be a HH! I can't imangine how many request Christy had for her 1725 (frankly I would have asked for the 1236 Harp if I knew she wasn't already in overload mode). But I'll say this till I'm blue, there are many fantastic seeds out there not from HH. Thanks for making that point Brooks!

2/10/2010 7:11:32 PM

Ohio

SW, Benefit of the doubt?? huh?

It gets harder and harder to post stuff on here with out offending someone and then trying to figure out why you offended them.
This is suppose to be a fun post, it was a total joke and not directed at anyone, so what ever you are talking about with your mix up at a recent auction I have no clue what your talking about, and definitely wasn't there,,lol
Hope I didnt hit a nerve to bad there SW.

2/10/2010 10:03:10 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

Being auctioneer... and fighting the lag on the chat board... I had to take it as it printed on the screen in front of me. I typed sold, I pushed enter, and before my 'sold' prints a bid pops up... so the chase is on again.

We do what we can with what we have; and I don't consider that if someone comes up with a few lines of after that sold line, to have done the blipper to look good....

Anyway, the auctions have their place, I have new appreciation for the behind the scenes; I'm grateful for the support we got; and the last few bubbles just need to go out, THEN. I still have cookies to bake!

2/11/2010 2:11:21 AM

Ohio

OK, I guess I will explain the inside joke that I was addressing to Pap, you guys are taking this way out of context here. So i guess I will just have to explain it.

A few years ago a 11 or 12 year old boy was wanting a 1469 Checkon and a 1502 Wallace in the worst way, he never grew a pumpkin in his life at the time, and he would post every other day on the seed board looking for these seeds that kinda started to annoy alot of growers on this site because of the many posts he would put up, it was all he talked about. He wanted all the past and present world record seeds in the worst worst worst way. LOL..Good kid really, just his posts came across the wrong way, very demanding kinda and admit to get these seeds, he just wouldn't listen to other growers trying to help him no matter what they posted to him. Alot of growers on the site really tried ,one in particular grower I know did was Engel's (Linus Van Pelt) but growers would tell him to grow a non proven seed first, get your feet wet before you grow seeds of this caliber , to germinate some seeds first, make sure you can grow big pumpkin off a non proven seed before so he wouldnt end up wasting great seeds like the ones he wanted.(because he would complain ALOT how he couldn't get seeds to germinate, and we all knew that his chances of getting a seed started, espically these world record seeds would be slim to none,,lol.)


So here is where the inside joke comes in,,

He would bid at auctions for these world record seeds mostly every auction, but only after the SOLD came up by the auctioneer.
We all knew this kid didnt have the money for these seeds to buy them, but the boy always bid, just for the fact he wanted everyone else to know how bad he wanted them.
So even though he was a minute or two late after the lot was already SOLD, he just kept doing this at every auction for these seeds.

2/11/2010 7:46:04 AM

Ohio

So what does Ron end up doing, knowing full well that the boy will not grow anything special or big his first year and that probably the seeds have a 1% chance of germinating for him,,, they mentor the kid and end up sending him a 1502 Wallace and I think a few other world record seeds anyway.
Ron even meets with the boy at a club function in his state one year and take pictures with him that makes the boys day, It was like he was meeting Brett Favre or one of the best athletes in the world by the way he posted his pictures with him in his dairy and photo gallery.

But while everyone else was putting the kid down in a way, (because he never would never take any of the other growers advice on here who really tried to help him, and because he wanted the best proven seeds out there that even the best growers had a hard time of getting,
Ron was the one who gave him the seeds and even met with him a few hours to help him with his growing.
(There was another great growers after and before this that also helped this kid, Im not forgetting about them growers, and even one popular grower even went to his patch that year to get him started.)

But this was the inside joke between Pap and I, that was not meant or intended on anyone else.
There, thats my inside joke that you guys are taking in a completely different direction.

2/11/2010 7:46:14 AM

Gold Hill, Oregon

i think if a couple of clubs have a minimum then all clubs should. all clubs follow the same rules.

2/11/2010 8:29:39 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

I remember that Brooks and it was a nice thing that Ron and Paps did to try and help that kid out.

2/11/2010 5:48:40 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

I can say we didn't set a minimum because we had a few non AG lots and weren't sure where they would start. With the Master Grower class now... and being frustrated at several other auctions to see LG or Tomato seeds with a pumpkin seed and wanting the non AG seeds only... demand for other seeds may grow.

I've seen the pic of Ron W and the kid being mentioned here on BP somewhere. Awesome any way you slice it, taking the time.

Meanwhile Auction Season is far from over! Hallelluah.

2/11/2010 9:22:35 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Silly Seeds...maybe it would help if you could post a link to that avg. cost @ auction list!!! Peace, Wayne

2/12/2010 12:11:07 AM

Port Elgin, Ontario, Canada

HI Wayne - it has been sent to the GPC - I'm sure Andy will get around to posting it soon.

2/12/2010 8:46:21 AM