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Macomb County

Now that we've made fun of the idea, I'm wondering if there are any growers on the site who've had experience with using enzymes? My only knowledge of them is they're used in certain compost activators and in some large scale operations because they reduce fertilizer rates by up to a half.

2/1/2010 11:45:33 PM

Las Cruces NM

Enzymes are crucial for production of plant growth hormones, enough said. Potasium activates enzymes, but not the only activator. Giant, what you need to do is study up on plant physology -- that is the info and answers you seek! It easy to say carbs and proteins are important to plant growth but that isn't to say feed them sugar and steaks! Just trying to help bud...

2/2/2010 12:10:18 AM

Macomb County

I understand plant physology very well. We grow a plant geared-up to produce 20 pumpkins and single fruit it. Making the sugar reserve level over the top. Seaweed and Fish are carbs and proteins.

What I'm speaking here is molasses has proven itself in plant growth, there's no question there. Only disease pressure can be increased. Do enzymes mop up the excess and keep it in check?

2/2/2010 2:15:33 AM

Ohio

Giant, to be totally honest here,,,not really making fun of you but its just hard to take you serious from your recent threads over the past years, one in particular that you was so admit about, crushing or running over your vines for better fruit growth. Its hard to read you and know if your trying to be funny or trying to be serious from ALL of your one of a kind posts that you make.

2/2/2010 5:04:52 AM

Anamosa, IA [email protected]

I had a thought about the foaming stuimps and molases. When you see plant material in nature that is starting to decompose and foaming, there is fermentation going on. Yeasts turn the carbohydrates into alcohol and emit carbon dioxide, which causes the bubbles or foam. Could it be that excess molasses application is stimulating the yeast organisms? The sap in the pumpkin vine is high in sugars, as that is what grows the fruit.

Maybe if you combine the ideas of Brooks and Jack you might solve the foaming stump problems. Maybe too much micorrhizae is puting too much pressure on the vines, causing leaks. And maybe too much molasses is over-stimulating the yeasts in the soil and getting yeast infections started in the leaks. After all, you won't see such high concentrations of each one in the soil in nature. Just a thought to consider.

2/2/2010 7:20:10 AM

Macomb County

I don't know how the crushed vines got so turned around. I saw a tractor being driven between rows while spraying. The owner assured me he doesn't lose plants. Then a tomato grower told me some growers twist and "snap" the main and side branches to make them bigger,stronger and studier. I simply wondered about it and somehow it got turned around I was promoting it. I tried it, I didn't notice any difference,the vine healed, like nothing happened.

The yeast thought is interesting. The foaming is the mystery. At worst, other infections ooze, not bubble. Yeast is a terrible infection for women, it's a very thought provoking idea, Iowegian.

2/2/2010 10:39:03 AM

Las Cruces NM

First let me say I'm troubled -- people out here should be helping, coaching, mentoring ... vice ridicule. And although I have never seen a foaming stump, Iowegian probably isn't too far off. Since you understand physiology, you know root membranes are too small for large molecules, like raw sugars, to be absorbed. Molasses really does nothing for the plant (and I believe I told you this before) . Even N-P-K-C and macronutrients are often too big, For example N must be converted to its nitrate form, i.e., usable N for the roots to absorb it. When we apply N fertilizer, we are applying N compounds close to the breakdown required of the roots … beyond that N becomes a gas (pure N). So then how does Molasses work? It simply feeds the soil. First it feeds the soil organisms that in turn break down the available micronutrients to a form plants can absorb. Second, carbs are formed in leafs -- roots release (excess) carbs that feed the mycro which penetrates the root membranes and deposits it waste which is plant food (symbiotic relationship). Molasses can also feed the mycro, providing stimulation effect. Third, molasses is a waste product that has nutrients much like kelp does. So you feed you soil and it really all comes down to what is in your soil. If you have clay soil, you likely have various bad organisms and feeding them can actually hurt. I point all this out as the physiology is a bit more complicated then feeding … and likely asking if adding enzymes can help – it’s too broad and so the only good answer can only be it all depends, but as I said, Enzymes are crucial for production of plant hormones. Is that good? Well that all depends too. Like taking asprin is good for you, taking a whole bottle is not!

2/2/2010 11:41:54 PM

Las Cruces NM

Ugg wish you could edit posts here. but I probably spent too much time on this one as it is -- so just take it for what I meant to say not what I said LOL

2/2/2010 11:44:32 PM

Anamosa, IA [email protected]

Yeast and fermentation could explain the lab tests on foaming stumps not showing any disease organisms. The byproduct of fermentation is alcohol, which is a very powerful antispetic. So if there had been some disease in the foaming stump, the alcohol from fermentation could wipe it out.

2/3/2010 12:04:20 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Iowegian, so...is there a way to figure out what causes it?? Peace, Wayne

2/3/2010 12:23:50 AM

Deer Park WA

"Yeast is a terrible infection for women, it's a very thought provoking idea".

Good Grief Jack...

2/3/2010 1:14:51 AM

southwest MO

That is an excellent observation Iowegian. Yeast do produce many different by-products that are inhospitable to other organisms. If the crown is leaking a good bit of "sap" and it collects in the soil underneath, stays constantly wet and void of air you have all the makings of yeast habitat.

2/3/2010 12:50:57 PM

Anamosa, IA [email protected]

The air is full of microscopic yeast spores. They only need to land in the proper environment to start growing.

2/3/2010 1:36:14 PM

Eastern Washington State

IMO topical applications of enzymes, molasses, ect would probably make things worse not better. It's possible that application of broad spectrum antibiotics and fungicide or disinfectant would slow it down. Backing off on the nutrients and water for a few days at the stump might also be worth trying since high nitrogen and moisture environments are good for microorganisms.

Peace Wayne asked just the right question. Prevention has to be the way to go. If people shared the circumstances surrounding when foaming did or did not occur, a common cause might emerge.

brian

2/3/2010 5:48:04 PM

Ohio

SWdesert, great read you just put up, I really learned alot from it, thanks for taking the time to explain that.

Iowegian, I think your onto something here with the Yeast and fermentation , because in my opinion the vessels that carry the water from the stump and then to the entire plant ''bust'' just like a water pipe does when there is to much pressure, which then would make the water just sit there in the stump and starts to ferment. I never gave that a thought about what the white foam was and where it was coming from but I think you just might have nailed it!


I think a reason why we are seeing a really wet area in the soil that circles the stump before we start seeing that white foam is, is because the plant is sucking up water from the roots that when this is happening the water only goes so far and thats to the break inside the stump, and then the water leaks out of that area back into the soil.(wet spot around stump in soil)

2/3/2010 8:02:35 PM

Ohio

Man I just re read that,,lol, I hope you can understand what Im trying to say,,lol

2/3/2010 8:04:41 PM

Eastern Washington State

Yes Brooks the scientific term for what causes the 'wet spot' you see is called 'turgor pressure'. If you cut a well-watered seedling off at the base, the roots will force out a bead of liquid. You can measure the strength of this effect by measuring how much air pressure it takes to keep the liquid in the roots. Turgor pressure is affected by how much water a plant has available, as well as how much dissolved substances (including salts) are present. I learned that lesson when I added liquid fertilizer to your 711 Bosworth a few years ago. Split overnight due to the massive pressure change. Thats why I was saying about easing off the water/fertilizer at the stump, as a possibility to give things a chance to heal. Sap coming out will be filled with microorganisms thats a given. Does anyone have an idea why the pipes burst in the beginning? Too much water at once? Too much salts?

2/3/2010 8:53:25 PM

Preston CT

Too much pruning all at once...Stop your 2ndaries one or 2 at a time. I wrote this before...I pruned a 1385 2 years ago all at once and low and behold she foamed on me...this year I did a little at a time...

2/4/2010 9:00:38 AM

southwest MO

I think you are on to something to Trailor... Could it be that when you prune all or too much at once, Source strength exceeds sink strength? (I know this is nothing new but bear with me.) This is to say that the plant(leaves) are producing so many carbs. that the pumpkin just cannot absorb it all. You have to admit 30+ pounds a day is alot to ask of any sink... So with too little secondary growth to act as a sink the roots become the next available sink, exerting even more pressure on the crown. Something has got to give... Either the pumpkin splits or the crown cracks.
The crown acts as a joint so to speak to join the different above and below ground tissues of the plant. It only makes sense that this would or could be the weak link. All this phloem that is rich in sugars and somewhat acidic would then also be deposited at or under the crown (through cracks or splits) adding to the exudates from the roots that collect in the soil under the crown. Now you have sugar, acid, and nutrients all present in a water logged area... This whole area just becomes completely ripe for infection from all sorts of nasties, opening the door to secondary infection to the vascular system.

2/4/2010 11:37:07 AM

Preston CT

It was also to suggested to me last year by a smart person who knows pumpkins that I should let the main and some of the secondaries to continute to grow after the pumpkin when my 1449.5 was putting on 30 lbs a day for 40 days so I would not get a damaged fruit...then it started cracking and I removed half of my plant...and no foaming stump

2/4/2010 1:41:14 PM