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Albert County, New Brunswick,CANADA

I was asked this question about giant pumpkins in a bar and I could not answer it but maybe someone could help. Are all the big pumpkins grown today,tied genetically to Howard Dills advancement in pumpkin growing or are there other lines involved? Thanks in advance...pete

1/19/2010 4:27:18 PM

Long Island,New York

There really are others....like Gancarz, Ford, Lamelle, etc....unless you're Canadian and then there's only Dill.

1/19/2010 4:57:51 PM

[email protected]

There isn't much left that hasn't already been mixed. Search the names that G provided.

1/19/2010 5:08:40 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

If there are others that are not decended from Howard's Pumpkins, and are now mixed in, does that make the modern competative fruit a new cultivar?

You are clearly getting something different in a seed that is from a competative Grower than you are going to get in a 2.98$ USD seed pack of generic AG Pumpkins.

Should we be calling these competative ones Titan's or something?

The phenotype has changed a little of the past few decades too.

These days at the weigh offs I see that the pancake flat fruits are getting more rare as the thick walled rounder, and more symmetrical shapes seem to hold up better under a lot of weight.

At the end of the day they are just Oranage Round Ribbed phenotype C.Maxima that have been bred for colossal size.

1/19/2010 5:22:54 PM

Ohio

wow Pete!,, for people who hasnt grown Atlantic Giants they sure did give you a tough question to answer, you sure they dont know anything about AG's and was just trying to throw a trick question at you?,,lol. Never heard this type question from a non grower that has no idea about anything related to Giant pumpkins, I usually get the milk question.

If you can get a hold of him,,,Allan Nesbitt could help you with this question though, hes been growing for a long time.

1/19/2010 6:44:51 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

" Howard Dill's advancement in pumpkin growing"

Howard Dill patented the seeds used to grow his giant pumpkin in 1981, thus the creation of Dill’s Atlantic Giant seeds. Howard Dill is also credited for all of the giant pumpkins today, most of which came from crossing and re-crossing his seed with other seeds. Glen is correct in recognizing the names of Ford, Lamelle and Gancarz although Howard is still the Godfather of the Atlantic giant.

1/19/2010 9:28:50 PM

Long Island,New York

see!

1/19/2010 9:46:51 PM

norway , maine

milk ? ... i knew it.

1/19/2010 11:48:06 PM

Albert County, New Brunswick,CANADA

The question was from an old fella born in Lunenberg, Nova Scotia,so he had a personal interest,plus he had been listening to my babblings about growing a pumpkin all last summer and fall.I thought is was a good question,and was hoping I wasn't the only dummy. I bet this has been debated a few times before and maybe I should not have opened this can of worms.But I do have some information now for further research.

1/20/2010 7:07:49 AM

Bethlehem CT

Steve Connolly and Al Eaton wrote a really good article about the history of the Atlantic giant. The title is' Got Snout?' I got my copy of it in the cd, 'How I grew the 1502 by Ron Wallace.' I highly reccommend the article and assume it is free from bias as it was written by growers on both sides of the border.
According to the article (back in the 60's and 70's) the Atlantic Giant's lines were being developed by Howard Dill in Canada, and a separate bunch of growers within a 100 mile radius area in New Jersey and Pennsylvania. Just to name a few; The Gancarz brothers, Helmut Laemmle and Richard Wright. Howard Dill was aware of these growers , and may have even have swapped seeds with them. It seems that our modern competition seeds have their routes from both the Dill's and the U.S. growers. Ron Wallace traced back the routes on his 1068 seed. The family tree was also included in the CD.
Howard Dill patented his seed in the 80's, this gave seed some public recognition. If he hadn't done that, maybe the word about the Atlantic Giant would not have gotten out.

1/20/2010 8:38:14 AM

Ontario

I would say yes. Some where down the line, no matter what seed line you're growing there is some Dill's seed lines in there somewhere if you go back far enough but saying that you could follow things back and find Eastern U.S. genetics in there too. The bigger question is that for sure ALL giant pumpkin lines (in theory) can be followed back to the William Warnocks pumpkins in the early 1900's.

1/20/2010 1:18:52 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

What happened to all those old time growers in Eastern PA and New Jersey? There are only a few growers here, and we are all fairly new to the sport. If they all retired from growing, it certainly seems that their favorite past times were not handed down to the following generations? Nowadays all the PA growers live out west.

1/20/2010 1:20:03 PM

Western PA

From what I have read and researched from a few different sources I would say probably all of the monsters that are being produced today have Dills genetics deep in there family trees.

On a side note; Not to take anything away from all of the hard work Howard dill and company put into the breeding of the Atlantic giants.

I think that a critcal key figure which is overlooked alot, William Warnock was a pumpkin growing stud! He was setting world records in the in the ealry 1900's that took 70+ years to break, He was in the 400lb range in 1900 when howard starting setting his records 70+ years later they where only in the 400 lb range also. Which just shows how ahead of his time warnock was with his breeding and growing techniques. He also had seeds named after him "Goderich Giants" I have read that even howard dill started with Warnocks gentics, along with other genetics to do his pumpkin breeding.

1/20/2010 8:04:56 PM

Western PA

Does anybody know if there is any documented history on Giant pumpkin growing prior to William Warnock?

1/20/2010 8:10:23 PM

Long Island,New York

Not for nuthin.....WE have done more for the advance of weights than all those mentioned combined. We the growers have selected the biggest and bred the best for years now. We are the reason sizes have increased. We have done the research and applied the technology we found to these and cultivated the bigger beasts. Our cumulative successses far outnumber those of the names mentioned previously. Don't sell your efforts and value to the advancement of wieghts short....YOU deserve the credits.
ps...before you all ride me till Im dead I say "we" mostly meaning "you".... all the growers.....

1/20/2010 10:14:34 PM

Elmira, N,Y,

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_01pahgaRXY0/SonYAWsi1wI/AAAAAAAAD0s/jgGd-YtKsuI/s1600-h/HOW_TO_GROW+GIANT+SQUASH+WARNOCK.JPG

1/21/2010 7:57:23 AM

Elmira, N,Y,

this is another great website:

http://pumpkinmania.blogspot.com/2009/08/how-to-grow-big-squashes-by-mr.html

1/21/2010 8:04:26 AM

Bloomington, IN

"I expect all have heard of feeding Squash and Pumpkin by injecting milk or other stuff . This is a ridiculous silly humbug."

lol, couldn't have said it better myself. thanks for the link!

1/21/2010 11:28:18 AM

Albert County, New Brunswick,CANADA

Yes,That is very interesting...especially with the pictures of so long ago.

1/21/2010 12:19:27 PM

Ontario

The question was if all of today's pumpkins were genetically tied to the Dill's lines or were other types of pumpkins invovled. I think that question was answered. As for patting yourself on the back for weight gains over the last 20 years, well isn't that like discounting the Wright brother's achievements because aircraft can travel faster than the speed of sound now? Try growing giant pumpkins by yourself from scratch starting from field pumpkin lines and see how far you get. We owe a lot to the pioneers of the hobby.

1/21/2010 12:55:14 PM

Long Island,New York

Cowpie....field pumpkin lines?....lol.....lol....

1/21/2010 5:30:23 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

I just learned that in the late 70's Howard Dill had great correspondance with William Warnock's daughter, Iris, who was by then in her 80's. It's neat that he was able to make that kind of connection.

1/22/2010 12:06:51 PM

Ontario

Sorry the term field pumpkin is offensive to you LIpumpkin but a pumpkin was a pumpkin back then. The pumpkins we grow now are the results of others hard work crossing various pumpkin types by trial and error.Way more effort was put into developing the pumpkin back then than what we do today. Does the fact I've grown bigger pumpkins than Howard Dill make me more worthy of praise? I don't think so. Does the phrase "Standing on the shoulders of giants" not ring true? If not then let me be the first to thank you for all the ground breaking advancements you've brought to the hobby. I'm sure the GPC will be handing out a Hall of Fame award to you this March.

1/22/2010 12:34:02 PM

Long Island,New York

Not for nothing Cowpie, but you've turned this into a post where I claim the credit. Perhaps you should re-read the post?..."ps...before you all ride me till Im dead I say "we" mostly meaning "you".... all the growers....."
I guess you'll ride anyway?

1/22/2010 10:43:03 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Pretty senseless and childish comments LIpumpkin! First you insult then you drivel. Why would anyone offend in such a manner? Your opening comment really enormously ignorant?

I don't ever recall a published work of accepted research by a grower in recent history other than Matt Debaco. Trial & Error is not research...it is called learning by experience.

1/23/2010 6:24:50 PM

Long Island,New York

wow.

1/23/2010 9:33:15 PM

Long Island,New York

Russ...I have sent you a private email....please respond.

1/23/2010 9:48:34 PM

Ontario

You're right in the sense that I did fully understand that I took your point out of context about hobbiest accomplishing the lion's share of weight gains over the last 20 years. For that I apoligize. It wasn't fair on my part. What got up my nose was that your complete dismissal of history and saying that only a Canadian would only credit Dill. Not true at all but I thought we all grew Atlantic Giants? That's a Dill pumpkin. If you can find me a pumpkin that does well at the weigh-offs that isn't an Atlantic giant (or derived from)then please let us know. Please re-read the initial post. "are all giant pumpkins genetically tied to the Dill pumpkin" Answer Yes they are. Period. Nothing was asked as to where the Dill line was derived or what other growers have done to it since. BTW all pumpkins came from a common ancestor that came from Mexico. Maybe we should hand out a HOF award to Juan Valdez. ;0)

1/24/2010 2:22:14 PM