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Sacramento, Ca

So most of the seed auctions go like this... bidder bids on a lot and let say he/she wins lot at, oh say, $100.00. Club has more than one lot of same seed, next lowest bidder bid $90.00. So winning bidder gets lot at $100.00 and losing bidder gets lot at $90.00. Can someone tell me what I am missing here? That does not seem right or fair, furthermore it looks shady imho. Just asking, that's all.

12/12/2009 9:28:10 PM

Las Cruces NM

Missing is winning bidder can get both lots at 100 each if he wants bothe, if not then the second highest bidder gets second lot (i.e., 90). Not sure what looks shady??? Can you elaborate?

12/12/2009 9:42:21 PM

El Paso TX.

As SW said the part you are misssing is that the winning bidder may want both in which case the second bidder would be shut out unless he was to overbid again at $105 in which case he could then buy both if he wanted so you have to be careful sitting in 2nd place if there are 2 lots !! (while you might save the $10 you could also get shut out !)

Besides it is alot better than the alternative where they split it into 2 lots and each stand on their own where there may be more of a discrepency on one over the other! (Thats part of an auction) - only time I see that there would be a problem is if say the seed was going for $100 as your example and someone comes in and throws out a bid of $800 which wins and only wants the 1 lot - which might cost the auction some of what it would have gotten letting the bids rise by the minimum but would give the 2nd bidder a great deal (But haven't seen a case of that happening.)

12/12/2009 10:48:19 PM

Citrus Heights, CA

I guess you've never bid against the... ICEMAN.

12/13/2009 12:16:07 AM

Las Cruces NM

I believe Iceman understand this is a fundraiser and thus he is just supporting the organizations. They are nonprofit so it all goes back into the hobby and this is how the clubs keep the sport going.

JDfan, we're close -- email me [email protected] -- thanks!

12/13/2009 1:22:03 AM

Pataskala,OH

Seems fair to me.

12/13/2009 9:45:09 AM

[email protected]

First and most important, is these auctions are run by clubs to support their weigh offs, news letters, etc etc.
The system used has it's flaws, and no matter what you do, there will always be flaws, so as long as the complaints are low, everybody wins.
The double, triple, lots etc are a clubs choice, they don't have to sell multiples, or they could sell them individually, But by doing the multiples, the auction is expedited, finishes earlier. Which is a good thing, easpecially with the amount of auctions out there.
As for someone bidding 800, after a bid of 100, doubt that will ever happen, just not a logical bid,
I along with many others, have a pretty good grasp of what seeds should generate for club income, and I for one will bid on a seed I think is far too cheap, If I win it, Oh well, and others do this as well, So we the People (LOL) sort of police the auctions.

Bottom line, you support the clubs first, and getting the seeds you want is a bonus

Hope this helps you understand better, and these are my views only

12/13/2009 10:46:33 AM

Coupeville WA

I have always thought that this was a little unfair.
My solution would be to let the winning bid (on multiple lots) set the price. The person winning the bid could decide how many lots they wanted at that price. If any are left over, then the next highest bidder would be offered at the SAME winning price.
Example: 3 lots available
Joe wins the bid at $100
Tom is second at $95
Amy is third at $85
If Joe only wants one lot, he may buy that lot for $100. Tom would then have the option of 1 or 2 lots at the winning price of $100. This process would go down all the bidders until the lots are exhausted.
To me, this would be the most fair practice. It would also maximize the dollars for each of the clubs.
Just my opinion.

12/13/2009 11:22:26 AM

Sacramento, Ca

Hands On, I agree with you. It seems very unfair that the winning bidder pays more for the seed than the losing bidder. At every real auction I have ever attended, if multiples of the same item are involved, the price of the winning bid is the price everyone pays for the remaining items. It just makes no sense to have the other lots get sold at less than what the high bid was. I for one would not be happy if I pay $100.00 for a lot and the next highest bidder gets it for less. No matter how you cut the mustard that is not right or fair. Just my 2 cents though.

12/13/2009 11:42:56 AM

[email protected]

It's not unfair, If I'm the winning bidder, then I get as many of the lots as I want, If there are 4 lots, and I'm the winning bidder, I can take them all, and the other bidder gets nothing. It's the winners choice.
Also, You want a particular seed, it's up for auction, and you bid $75.00 for example, because that's all the money you can spend, you have an better opportunity to get that seed in a multiple lot. Plus your supporting the clubs in the process.
Although the clubs want top dollar, they are putting more seeds available to more people this way. This, in my books is very fair.
Another side to this, If you get the seed and your on a tight budget, the odds of that seed you won has a better chance of seeing dirt than a seed I win, so again your promoting the auction by spending less, getting a better deal, and in fact helping to prove the seed.

12/13/2009 12:03:30 PM

Ontario

Gotta agree with Eddy, this is about raising funds for the clubs and organizations first and foremost, who put countless hours of volunteer time for a hobby they believe in. The auction format as it stands is very fair and the idea of winning a multiple lot is having that option of taking them all, or letting some of your fellow growers also grow a seed they want for a bit less than you paid...it is usually only 5, 10 or 20 bucks difference which is really not a big deal, just my 2 cents...

12/13/2009 12:15:32 PM

Sacramento, Ca

Eddy, I completely agree that the winner should be able to purchase as many of the lots as they want. Where we disagree is with the price that the second place bidder pays.

12/13/2009 12:52:46 PM

Ohio

I agree with Eddy, its 100% fair.

Say there is 3 lots up for auction,, and say Joe bids 50.00 and then I bid 65.00 for a seed, then Eddy bids next at 100.00 for that seed and ends up winning it.

Lets say Eddy takes 1 lot which leaves 2 more lots for the next highest bidders.
So then the club auctionner ask me if I want one or two lots at 110.00 instead of the 65.00 I bid? Whats the chances me or Joe is going to pay 110.00 for that seed when we bid as high as we really wanted to pay for that seed in the first place. If I turn down paying the 110 do you think Joe will pay 110 when all he wanted to pay was 50.00? Nope. So then what does the club do with the two remaining lots they couldnt sell?,, save them for next year and lose two sales this year? Clubs wont make near the money they do now by doing it the way you think might be more fair 'hands on' , they will lose way to many sales that way.

12/13/2009 3:30:44 PM

Knopp, Germany

when the person that does not wins, gets to buy 2 lots for less then the person that does win, then something is wrong.

i have learned this here, and have done exactly that. not my rules, i just play the game.

13 - 0

go colts

12/13/2009 4:20:17 PM

Sacramento, Ca

Agreed Owen, apparently no one that runs the clubs see the unfairness in it either.

"So then what does the club do with the two remaining lots they couldnt sell?,, save them for next year and lose two sales this year?" That is the exact right thing to do. As a patron of your club we are a consumer of your wares. If you choose to not give us a fair deal then that is on you. If someone agrees to your rules then that is fine too. As long as we all know the rules though does not make what the clubs are doing right. If a club is all about making money, which is what you indicate Brooks, then the way you are going about is is just plain wrong insofar as your seed auctions are concerned. The customer is always right and always comes first. People that buy your seeds are your customers. I for one won't be purchasing any seeds from any clubs under those rules. I was in an auction for a 1725 Harp and when I realized how the bidding went I no longer bid. Some other sucker can be high bidder.

12/13/2009 7:32:42 PM

Georgetown, Ontario

I don't see the problem here at all...think about it...The winning bidder pays what they were willing to pay for the seed. If there are multiple lots, the winner may take them all, thus everyone else loses. If he doesn't want them all then the next highest gets to pick. All the control is in the winning bidders hands and if he chooses to pass on that control to the next higest bidder then doesn't the second highest bidder win as well? Everyone ends up paying what they were willing to pay for the seed and the highest bidder always gets to choose to hand over the power to the next highest bidder if they want. It's all about getting great seeds planted in the ground and raising money for the clubs...lighten-up.

12/13/2009 7:48:12 PM

[email protected]

Midnight gardner, That's you business weather you bid or not, Really at the end of it all, it's your loss, not the clubs, because someone will take your place.

Owen, have you been drinking your bath water again???
lol

12/13/2009 8:12:45 PM

Taylorsville, California

These auctions benefit all of us growers in the long run, with the weigh offs, club newsletters etc,, This isn't a business the clubs are running and shouldn't be IMO. Its kind of like giving money to a charity, most people are doing it for the cause, not just as a business transaction. Sounds like sour grapes to me Midnight.

12/13/2009 8:48:23 PM

Ohio

Midnight, the club sales isn't completely all about the customers, its about the club the weigh offs and their functions, how do you think the prize money comes about?,,

These clubs aren't Wal Mart, and have no customer service reps, and its all done on a volunteer basis. And no one is trying to be shady or cheat anyone out of their money, all these people who do this are a ''VOLENTEER'' club members who help to raise money for the next years events. These guys have a ton of their 'own' time invested for all growers , and growers like you, to win prize money at the weigh offs and other club functions. And they cant do this every year with no money by holding onto seeds that they could have sold for 10 or 20 bucks less,, BIG DEAL!

these people dont get paid for doing this and they arnt shady or trying to cheat anyone out of anything.. and you have the right idea, if you dont like how the auctions are run then dont be a sucker and bid like you think the clubs are trying to betray you of being. If you think this is what this hobby is about then you might need to find another hobby. ,,, Amazing Ill tell ya.

12/13/2009 9:44:54 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

I haven't been disturbed about how the auctions are currently being run, in regards to multiple lots. Can anyone think of a better/fairer way to get all the seeds offered sold? I'm satisfied with how it is. Though I'm open to hearing alternative rule proposals.

12/13/2009 10:33:21 PM

[email protected]

It's as fair as anyone here has ever figured out how to make it. We try to always announce multiples at the start of bidding but ALL of the general announcements listed multiples.

As previously mentioned we can choose to make multiple lots seperarate lots but that burns the clock.

12/13/2009 10:41:55 PM

Bauernhof

My suggestion to MG is to volunteer for a club, get involved and see what it is like to spend hours making the whole thing worth while. After one auction he might just even be willing to kick in the 5 bucks between the winner and the runner up himself just to make such whining go away.

12/13/2009 10:50:34 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Kudo's to Ice, Brooks, Tremor and all who have put the time into putting auction lots together!!! Prbly should include Cletus, Festus, Bill, Frank, and this year Dwight!!! I have heard long tales, or tails about how much work this involves, and I give my utmost respect to all who participate in the auction process!!!! Peace, Wayne
PS...for all who have never read the rules, before any auction starts....you should do that!!!! Every auction I have been to, the rules (written in b/w ) were there b/4 the auction started!!!
Another BIG set of THANKS goes out to all who contributed to the KPM (I mean KGPG) auction this year!!!! Peace, Wayne

12/14/2009 2:10:55 AM

Ontario, Canada.

In a sense there is a tiny bit of bias to sell seeds and I certainly understand MG's point of view. For me and most of my colleagues in the commonwealth it boils down to trust and honesty. I have really never heard of an auction situation that resulted major problems.

Truthfully it is a lot work to run such an event. However when its the labour of your love you really don't tend to see it that way.

The Commonwealth, is the whole larger community of growers, clubs and organizations and as such generally polices itself. The auctions here on BP have traditionally been run very well & fair. Clubs continue to search for better ways to disperse seeds. The evolution of the auction continues to grow and as the hobby grows new issues will arise.

It is great that we can have such open discussions. I applaud all of you in vigorously supporting the passion of your choice.

Midnight Gardener's points are well absorbed as we all work toward a better commonwealth. Seed valuations can be determined quickly by viewing the Seed Auction Price File on the GPC resources page at the link posted below. The file first started several years ago is now administration by Sally and kept on the Commonwealth web site for all growers.

Thanks

Russ

http://www.greatpumpkincommonwealth.com/resources.php

12/14/2009 6:45:50 AM

Glosta

This being my first year it took a minute for me to understand the auction process. I found nothing unfair at all. If I really wanted a seed i would bid what I could, if I reached my limit and didn't get a seed then ohh well. Multiples give the person who doesn't have the funds to afford top dollar a chance to have access to a great seed, and it also brings money into the club. Benefits both parties, no problem there.

12/14/2009 6:48:10 AM

ordinary,VA

Good reply to the topic of multiple lots .
Russ hit it right on the head with labor of love and trust honesty issue...
never seen anything wrong with multiple lots auction,really kind of fun to see if the top bidder will grab them all or -------

(now shameless plug time) but it ties in with the trust & honesty issue Russ posted above.

the VGVGA had our very first seed auction last year and was overwhelmed by the support from all the growers who sent seeds and help us organized the auction.

the outstanding support from Tom Privitera & Don Young who gave up a Saturday night to run our auction.(going back to the well again this year)

such generosity is in abundance in the pumpkin community
ex:with Growers sending "surprise" seeds in there "bubbles" (thank you Phil Hunt ) this sport,hobby,obsession (wherever you fit in )never fails to amaze me.



Ed

12/14/2009 9:11:51 AM

NewBrunswick Canada

lets cut it,you can not auction off 2 seed lots at same price,only 2 seeds as one lot.

12/14/2009 9:56:48 AM

Midnight Gardener, your point is well taken from the standpoint of someone who attends various other auctions. I agree with you insomuch as other auctions I have attended used the practices of which you speak. To wit: say I am bidding against someone on an auction lot of seven chain binders (as an example), being auctioned as “choice.” The winning bidder gets his/her choice of the seven chain binders, multiplied by the price per item he has bid. He may take all seven or only one.

Say the winning bidder bids $30 for choice. I have bid up to only $20, and note that there are no other bidders for this particular item. The gavel drops and the winning bidder takes choice on two of the items at $30 each, for a total of $60. The auctioneer then offers me, as the backup bidder, my choice on the remaining items for the same “winning money” of $30 each. I decline.

This is the part of your argument that has been left out – what happens when I decline? For a no-reserve absolute auction, the item goes back into the bidding process, either as choice again, but often can go back into the bid process as “one money” or “five times the money.” In other words, you may be bidding “choice” (price per item times as many of the remaining items as you choose to take at the wining bid price), for a consolidated price (“one money”), or for a “five times the money” (in this example) where the bid price is per item, but the bidder is required to buy all five remaining items at that price.

If I am a savvy bidder, I will not take the $30 bid on these binders, in part because I can buy a brand new one at Coastal Farm and Ranch for $35.99, but also because I believe there is a much better deal to be had. (continued)

12/14/2009 12:56:07 PM

The remaining five items go back into bid, and for the sake of argument, let’s say it’s “five times the money.” I bid $5. There were no other bidders in the first part of the auction, and as it turns out, no one else this time around, either. I get five chain binders for $25, while the poor sucker before me just paid $60 for two. His loss.

If that seems unfair, I’m not really sure what to tell you. That’s how the game is played. If you’ve been to auctions, you know that. It sucks to be the sucker, but it sure is nice to be the one who gets “the deal.”

You also know that several other aspects of “real” auctions are not duplicated with pumpkin seed auctions. Every auction I’ve been two requires bidders to register before they are allowed to bid. In doing so, and in bidding, the bidder has entered into a legally binding agreement. Pumpkin seed auctioneers operate in a more laid back fashion, do not typically require bidders to pre-register, and, quite frankly, put up with a lot more crap than auctioneers in other auctions would.

The point, and it is a point already made by Eddy and others, is that these auctions are for the benefit of the clubs. If clubs find it advantageous to mimic other auctions by rebidding on multiple lot lots, I think that would be there prerogative. But if you think the auctions sometimes drag on with the current system, wait and see how that would go.

Instead, clubs have for the most part adhered to a system where the winning bidder gets “choice” at the winning bid price, and the backup bidder(s) then get choice at their price. This streamlines the bid process and allows the clubs to trade off some possible profit margin for a reduction in risk. “A bird in hand,” you might say.

12/14/2009 12:56:22 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Guess this one is pretty much beat to death........Is what it is.....

Please help Support your clubs

12/14/2009 2:19:25 PM

ordinary,VA

Amen Wiz!!

12/14/2009 2:53:03 PM

Joliet, IL

i hear that eddy. my take is you have to bid to win. and if you really want the seed, think of your idea of what the seed should go for or has already gone for and be willing on that night to bid 100 higher. some nights you get better deals, some nights you won't. and some nights you are just having fun and trying to push eddy as far as you can and then he says OUT and you are left there with your jaw dropped saying why did i have to do that last bid. lol. and then you laugh and pay up knowing it is going to a good cause. it is fun. i recommend everyone buying at least one seed a year just for fun. doesn't have to be a top notch seed. so many good ones out there to get great deals on. i know some people in these times can't afford to waste a dime on a seed and that is understandable. but if no one bidded on seeds, then there would be no seed auctions. obvious fact i know. these auctions not only bring in money, but provide the clubs a means to operate and raise prize money to make the weighoffs a success. so if you want to really put a charge into your season and dreamed of growing a hot seed, find a way to save some cash and treat yourself. you only live once. just knowing its potential will help keep you on your toes the whole year and you will be out there late in the heat with misquitos. carrot in front of the mule trick.

but you have to bid to win, and if there is even a shadow of doubt you will lose a multiple set highest bid...then be the highest bidder. i hold nothing against the guy who wants them both, cuz usually that guy is me. been on both sides of the deal and it is all good. i like the system and have fun contributing to the clubs, and i like growing at least one hot seed a year. its hot cuz its proven and your percentages went up as soon as you bought it.

12/14/2009 7:46:48 PM

Nikiski, Alaska 99635

Well put Jeff!

12/14/2009 10:05:30 PM

Knopp, Germany

i pick each year the clubs i support, or in the case of the GPC the organizations.

but for me it is still a game, if i can buy 2 lots for less then the "winner', then i won the game, the club/organization gets the money and i am happy.

good bath water...LOL

it is really beat to death? who knowz.

12/15/2009 1:23:00 PM

Cottage Grove, Oregon

First off life is not always fair. There is no guarantee it will be. In grown up world when you go to a live auction if there are multiple items in a lot, the winning bidder gets first choice at the winning bid and may take as many of the lots he or she wishes. If then there are any lots still available the backup bidder gets to choose if they would like to take a lot or more at the same winning bid price and so on until all lots are gone. If no one takes these extra lots at this price then the remaing lots are then rebid and sold at a new price. Usually the price is lower, but I have occasionally I have seen items rebid go for a higher price, not the lower price the first winner got it for. That is the fair way to do it. The grower clubs should follow this method.

12/15/2009 7:22:23 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Dan, first of all we are not grown ups!!! We are pkn growers!!! LOL Gotta have a bit of kid in ya to even try this!!! All the rules are posted b/4 every auction starts!!! Following the rules, that you stated...each and every auction here on bp.com would take forever (if they offered multiple lots)!!! The quick pace of the auctions, is what makes it so much fun!!! IMHO!!! Peace, Wayne

12/16/2009 10:36:14 PM