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Ohio

Just wondering how many growers out there that 'dont' use compost tea but yet still gets the same results or maybe even better at growing some huge pumpkins?

I know of a few growers that have grown some 1500
plus pounds with no compost tea used at all.
And Im guessing on a rumor here and could be wrong, but I dont think Christy used it on her 1725 that she grew ether.(Just guessing from what I have heard)

So are we wasting our time with it?,, what do you guys think? I know I have only used it one season about 4 years ago and never seen much difference.

Wouldn't the manure/compost that you add in the fall and spring be just about the same thing?,, so why waste your time using it if your growing huge pumpkins already?

11/12/2009 4:01:18 PM

canal winchester ohio

Brooks, the thing I've noticed the most from using tea is healthier plants. Right now I'm limited to 2 small plants so health is everything. If I had 8-10 plants I might play the odds knowing that with 10 plants I should get 5-6 pumpkins. My disease level is zero & I point to tea for some of that.

11/12/2009 5:46:24 PM

Minnesota

I'm to knew to this to know the difference but, I found a viedeo on youtube about John Evans who sells a Bountea Brew Kit, swares by it, he also holds for giant vegetables 9 world records, 18 state, 400 other awards.

11/12/2009 6:23:00 PM

Mpls

Im sure you could, but grab a microscope and the proof is in the pudding, cant hurt, and honestly we have so much stuff in our soils to break down throughout the year!

11/12/2009 6:27:47 PM

France

I didn't use any compost tea this season.
Maybe ACT help the plant to be stronger and healthier?
Maybe Act can be really helpfull in old patch where the soil life need to be improved ?
I'm not a compost tea specialist but I give it a try next year.

11/12/2009 6:54:22 PM

huntsburg,ohio

don't use it.Jerry

11/12/2009 7:45:23 PM

Northern Cambria, Pa.

Never used it and probably never will.

11/12/2009 8:09:07 PM

Ohio

Huff, that makes alot of sense there, keeping your plant healthy for a longer period of time would definitely benefit.
Only thing that worried me when using compost tea was that if it wasn't done (by using air bubbles) that you could be introducing the bad stuff to your plant and not the good and, I really dont want to chance that.

11/12/2009 8:41:05 PM

canal winchester ohio

Definitely use air bubbles here and for only 24 hours. After that the tea would start to turn.

11/12/2009 9:30:59 PM

canal winchester ohio

I also stumbled across a recipe that sounds crazy as hell but works.

11/12/2009 9:40:32 PM

Massillon, Ohio

never. sounds like too big of a hastle and we have enough hastles. lol.

11/12/2009 9:52:58 PM

Midway, UT

All I know is I had one of the brown patches in the lawn that I could never get the grass to grow in and one day I put some compost tea on the spot and two weeks later there was grass in the spot starting to pook through when I hadn't had it for almost two years. I think there is some benefit if it has been brewed correctly, but there are a number of heavy hitters who don't do it. I'm pretty sure it probably doesn't directly add much in the way of pounds but I do think it might reduce some diseases and helps add balance to the soil biology.

11/13/2009 12:44:39 AM

Netherlands

Grown two WRs and almost a third without it. Also several European and national records. Waste of time.

11/13/2009 4:12:14 AM

Saegertown Pa.

I used it one year as a drench threw my drip but did some reading and the study's show it doesn't help with dieses that way. Never used it as a foliar, my leaves always look good with out it, seems like a lot of work.

11/13/2009 5:42:56 AM

Here's my take on the tea, I use it and yes it is some work, BUT I do think it replaces the use of many chemicals that most of the "non" users are including in thier program. My plant health in all of my gardens has improved remarkably the last few years with it's use.

So, if you want to spend the time and money on chemicals that's fine, I'll spend some time on the "cheap" tea and increase the active biology here.

Don't get me wrong, IF I have to address a problem with chemicals I will, but at this point I think the good points for useing ACT are well worth the effort.

11/13/2009 7:40:37 AM

Wi

I use tea every 2 weeks.

I believe spraying Miller Lite on my plants would give the same result.

11/13/2009 9:33:12 AM

Mn

It would be interesting to know the spray rates and chemicals used by growers who use tea and those who do not. I believe Don young uses it.

11/13/2009 12:40:31 PM

Cornelius, Oregon

Have never used it here, for whats it worth. I have a theory on something else though..... (dr evil laugh begins....)

11/13/2009 2:23:04 PM

canal winchester ohio

I know it seems like work but it really isn't. I brew mine using the design here, http://www.fisher5.org/brewer.htm .
When its done I take out the hose & drop a sump pump in the barrel & spray it over the patch ( I didn't make a bottom drain). Then rinse out the barrel & fill it back up to warm up for next brewing.
If it was real hard I sure wouldn't do it, but I do have a lot of spare time right now.

11/13/2009 2:41:38 PM

[email protected]

Dr. Elaine Ingrham referred me to the head of one of the SFW, Inc labs. The guy in charge at SFW Corvalis promised to get me a recipe to control Fusarium as well as published efficacy data. That was two years ago. I'm tired of calling him.

Fe did offer a package deal to discount the $175 tea test if we committed to buying 10 tests. Fungicide is much cheaper.

Despite some very favorable grower reviews, there has never been a published/peer reviewed university study to support the use of Compost Tea.

If I'm wrong please share the URL to the published results.

11/13/2009 3:48:42 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

I believe it won't hurt, and can really help if your soil lacks the right microbes.

It's like the things you put in your engine... like MMO, Seafoam, etc. If your engine is dirty, it will really respond. If it isn't, it's not doing any harm, but not much good because the engine is already clean. (OK, maybe a few of you will understand that analogy.)

11/13/2009 4:05:06 PM

[email protected]

Compost tea isn't used to jump start soil biology. That is already easy to do with soil applied inoculants, compost, manures, etc. CT should seek to create a film of once living organisms. Said film is thought to be fungistatic to some degree.

Don't get me wrong here. IF CT is fungistatic we should all use it. There can be very little chance of burning a plant with CT. Very unlikely to hurt the applicator or persist in the environment either.

I've heard folks report their plants become more vigorous with CT but this is probably hard to substantiate.

In theory there is a very slight chance of brewing Anthrax or some other rarely encountered toxic biological stew. But the chances are pretty slim.

11/13/2009 6:55:15 PM

[email protected]

If Larry Checkon, Jerry Rose, Quinn Werner & Christy Harp don't use it, the rest of us mortals don't need it.

BRETT'S EVIL LAUGH CONCERNS ME. LOL

11/13/2009 7:06:52 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Any organic gardener would be wise to include CT in their arsenal of tools to grow the big one. Those using chemical ferts/pesticides would have no need of CT, the beneficial microbes in the soil wouldn't know if they were coming or going anyway. CT isn't the magic bullet, just a useful tool for those who take an organic approach. Tremor, I respect your opinion, you are a great resource to this site but you're a chemical guy. Many a HH uses CT and who can argue with their results. More than one way to skin a cat.
PS- Brett's Evil laugh concerns me too!

11/13/2009 10:11:06 PM

Alaska

Experimented with a couple Brand name Brews and then tried my own concoction for awhile. Didn't get any better results than I was already getting. It was costing me more money and time than I had to spare. So that's a NO for ME TOO! Scott.

11/14/2009 3:10:37 AM

Napa Valley, CA

If your soil test shows that your soil has 100% of what it needs to grow healthy plants and fruit and (assuming) that CT boosts this to 110%, will that make a difference?
I don't think so.

Will CT help the disease level?
I have used CT off and on over the past 40 years in my vegetable garden. I have not noticed any difference in disease level in the years that I have used CT.

11/15/2009 3:57:50 PM

canal winchester ohio

The disease help will depend on your recipe. If not properly brewed you will still have fertilizer but not the proper microbes for disease control.
I think with compost tea it depends on how much time you put into it. Do your homework & brew properly you can reap the benefits. I believe the reason you see such a wide range of reported help from it ( or no help) is the fact that it isn't a packaged fertilizer telling you the application rates, it's homemade & everyones batches are a little different.

11/15/2009 6:41:31 PM

canal winchester ohio

As for time & money, mt setup takes 15 minutes to start brewing & costs about $2 a batch. I don't go with the pre-fab measured out kits because they are expensive. Just like everything else, a meal out at a diner might costs $40 while that same meal can be made at home for $8.
Personally I do see the difference on my pumpkins, veggy garden, flowers & lawn so I'll continue.

11/15/2009 6:46:05 PM

[email protected]

No harm comes from ACT. Indeed while brewing & spraying ACT the grower isn't causing trouble elsewhere so....

BUT. None of the ACT advocates can present any proof that ACT controls disease which is the only plausible agronomic benefit. I'm not saying ACT isn't helpful. But let's look at the scale results of the half dozen Heavy Hitters who are now on record in this thread. Most prefer burying secondaries to brewing tea. A Stihl backpack full of Warrior will advance the Personal Bests much more consistently than CT.

There just aren't enough hours in the day to brew ACT properly & still tend vines & control CBs & SVBs.

11/15/2009 9:52:21 PM

Gays Mills, Wisconsin

I "brew" a worm casting aerobic tea (not compost). The castings come from controlled inputs and are easy to use. I have had positive experiences with the use in several ways. One way was how the plants that recieved the tea had no powdery mildew where other plants next to them did. I even noticed leaves under the "tents" with the pumpkins had some mildew on them even though the leaves outside the tent didn't, only difference was the tea application. Compost tea to me has to many variables plus more work, I actually began a side business of raising nightcrawlers because of the success I had in using their castings.
John Barlow

11/15/2009 10:11:07 PM

canal winchester ohio

I brew worm castings as well, do you use baby oatmeal to help activate the fungi in the castings. I've had good success doing this.

11/15/2009 10:22:31 PM

Northern Cambria, Pa.

The problem I have with it is that unless you test each batch, you just don't know what's in it. I think it was Dr. Linderman who explained at Niagara in 2008, even under laboratory conditions, brews come out differently each time. Even if you do know what's in it, how do you know how it's going to affect your plants? Maybe it is good but I would rather not take pot shots at serious diseases.

11/16/2009 8:39:53 AM

canal winchester ohio

Larry, I'm not saying it's the only way to go. Along with yourself the others on this thread ( Quinn, Christy & Jerry) you folks are awesome at growing these giants & I have all the respect in the world for you. I'm just pointing out that it can be done easily & inexpensive if someone wants to go that route.

11/16/2009 10:51:02 AM

Alaska

If you're happy with the weights you're getting and the overall results regardless of how competitive you are or aren't. Then brew away! It is a fun little process. Mix a little bit of this a little bit of that. Some frog hair and toad turds. Yippee! IMHO, Scott.

11/16/2009 3:00:06 PM

canal winchester ohio

I've been civil & respectful on this thread & you follow my post with " frog hair and toad turds". Come on Hoss, show a little more maturity than that.
..Paul

11/16/2009 3:11:26 PM

[email protected]

"Toad turds"......LOL

I don't mean any disrespect. That's just plain funny.

A few years ago one of my largest customers had his midlife crisis. Yes, he is gay. Anyway, he was doing the New Orleans Mardi Gras thing & met a CT Guru. The next year I was making my annual tree inspection & heard a tambourine in the bushes. I've been around long enough to know that tambourines are trouble. This "CONSULTING ARBORIST" was there to second guess my work. I never went back especially after the incense reading where they asked the tree why it had borers. The tree died.

The guy has more money than brains. When the main lawn didn't respond to CT and died, he sod cut and replaced the entire lawn on his own dime.

He's since hired the son of one of my college instructors. The guy is very intelligent. He had owned a tree company but spent too much time thinking when he should have been making money to pay his mounting bills.

Anyway, the boy wonder still maintains he could brew a batch of Anthrax strong enough to kill half the town though he hasn't killed the borers yet. The big boss admits the stuff doesn't work but they won't stop trying regardless. Enough of the board drinks the Kool Aid that it doesn't matter.

11/16/2009 8:21:36 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Tonight at our monthly meeting we had a guest speaker Darryl Lingley who essentially works for Dr. Elaine Ingham. Now before anyone gets their knickers in a knot, what I liked about this guy was his common sense approach. He wasn't against commercial ferts or insecticides etc. His concern was soil health. If anyone had a need to wipe out SVB's, cuke beetles whatever he says have at it. However, after the problem had been addressed he believes adding aged compost and CT to restore soil to healthy levels of bacteria and/or fungii would benefit any crop and contribute to overall plant health. He didn't make any claims that CT would grow hair on a bowling ball but his rationale regarding soil health made good sense.

11/16/2009 9:51:28 PM

Las Cruces NM

How can you say it can't hurt if you can't explain what it does? I am sceptical to say the least, I want to know *how* or *why* it works. Ive been surfing ACT, people swear by it, but people swear by snake oils too -- so that doesn't carry a lot of weight with me. Some of the questions I have are simple:
1) Since it has to be applied before it goes anaerobic, just what prevents it from going anaerobic after it is applied? Plants can’t absorb anything instantaneously and the air is turned off – this to me seems a problem.
2) I assume the molasses is to feed the microbes during the brewing process. Assuming it is used up in the brewing process, where does the microbes then get the sugar once they hit the plant/soil! Wondering if what makes it work is same as harpin?
3) Assuming the sugar doesn’t get used up, wouldn’t it cause a temp build up and die off (when sugar depleted) of other microbes? or your VAM? and why is that a negative effect?
4) Are all aerobic microbes beneficial? Or for that matter all anaerobic microbes detrimental? Seems to me there is some fallacy at work there which brings on justified scrutiny? It's like drinking paint because antioxyidents are good for you. I'm a free radical myself :)
5) The kelp powder, humic acid, and humates seem all water soluable and thus easily leached and so where is the long term effect on the soil?
6) And so we really know what a humate is? What is does?
7) One claim I heard is that fertilizer is not organic and is mined and we are running out ... but when I looked up humates here: http://www.humates.com/ I see it is also mined so what's the differance?
I'm not against ACT, I just want to why/how it works -- that should be a fair expectation. I sure don't apply pesticides funguscides without knowing! I have everything I need to brew, and I tend to experiment to get answers I can't get, just unsure here.

11/17/2009 1:06:00 AM

canal winchester ohio

Andy, that's my basic belief as well & I've read quite a few articles from the people mentioned above. But you said one thing that raises another question, a lot of growers believe in adding compost in the form of aged leaves, manure or any of the other sources. But using the arguement against CT wouldn't that apply to aged compost as well, by applying any form of compost you are adding material that your not quite sure whats there without doing test on it. And I don't mean one test on one truckload applied but many test because different areas of the compost area it came from could possibly have different results. And if you apply compost without proper testing are you not just applying blindly? I prefer cover crops for adding organic material into my gardens.
Steve, the tambourine comment is funny & I would not listen to a thing he said as well, but what does being gay have to do with anything. That would be no different than someone talking about me and saying " Did you see Paul fall getting into his truck" then follow that up by saying " Yes, he's a cripple". You know you shouldn't label Hoss.
We could disagree on this all winter, it a personal preference & that has been shown well on this thread.
But 5% of the growers are leaders & 95% are followers, remember calcium wraps a few years back? The top growers did it & everybody followed, now it's dieing down. If in a couple years a few growers pop records & happened to use CT while growing then the bottom 95% will forget about this thread & start brewing.
Don't ever rule anything out, the weights haven't jumped like they have in the past 10 years by doing the exact same thing as 10 years ago. Minor tweaks here & there either with genetics or growing practices is what has gotten the weights to where they are now.
...Paul

11/17/2009 8:52:36 AM