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Bristol R.I. USA

I read Don's book about 5 times and I like it however i don't agree with the no till program. Am i to believe that i should add all my soil amendments directly on the patch. How does the nutrients get into the soil where the plant can utilise it? Any comments on this? Anyone do anything like this and grow a monster?

11/6/2009 2:03:30 PM

Alaska

Has anyone watched a program that was on cable/network TV about the plague of mice in Australia that was attributed to no till? By not tilling in the fall it left existing burrows and grain in the field for the mice to be able to continue to reproduce all year long. The results were a plague of field mice. I personally till at least once a year and sometime twice. Once in the fall if I'm adding lime and in the spring for other amendments. Sounds like someone is drinking the Compost tea again, lol. IMHO, Scott,

11/6/2009 2:43:56 PM

Same here Kenny...... The book is flat out great execpt for the no till stuff. I think you should till a few times but don't go crazy tilling and stick to it like that.

Martin

11/6/2009 4:38:13 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

It's the off season, so I think we'll debate this one quite a bit this winter. With my particular soil, I don't know how I could cope with soil compaction without tilling. My soil compacts with just a strong rain. In it's natural state, my soil would support only grass, cactus, and sagebrush. There has not been a rain forest here recently.

The only way I could "no till" would be to construct raised beds with lumber, and back fill that with lots of good stuff. In fact, I may do just that.

11/6/2009 5:03:46 PM

Anamosa, IA [email protected]

If you have a good population of earthorms, they will work a lot of your amendments into the soil. They pull down organic matter and their burrows let soluable nutrients infiltrate the soil. They improve the internal drainage. The only way you will have good earthworms is to limit tillage as much as possible.

Some soils do respond better to notill than others. In my part of Iowa, the best way to improve your farm soil is long term notill. I have seen side-by-side comparisons and there is a dramatic difference. We have plenty of predators(snakes, hawks, owls, cats, coyotes, etc.) and don't have problems with mice. But If you are in an arid climate, or have heavy clay, thin soil or other problems, notill might not work. But after you get your topsoil built up properly it might work. Talk to your local Extension office for their recommendations.

11/6/2009 10:06:37 PM

Falls City, NE

No till is why you now see so much Henbit. within a few years after the farmers strated no till the hen bit started to get worse and worse. Why because before the fields were plowed every fall thats when henbit starts so it was never able to get established until no-till came along.

11/6/2009 10:12:57 PM

Netherlands

Kenny, many of us Europeans use no till. We just add the organic amendments (no compost teas, no fertilizer, no micchorizae) to the soil and losely fork it in by hand using a broad fork (gets rid of mice). You work backwards so you don't compact the soil. Your soil just teems with worms.

That's how I grew my WR squash and that's how most/many of the really big European pumpkins and squash were grown this year.

Way too many people are adding all kinds of junk to their patches without having a clue how all the amendments affect each other. Often they just kill each other off. Organic works. Look at my 1234* and Daho's 1611. I grew my WR marrow like that too. The previous WR marrow was 143 lbs and grown non-organically like almost all big marrows have been. Mine weighed in at 206.5 and was all organic and no-till.

Of course, do what works for you, but the European record is quickly catching up to the world record and many of these growers use no-till, no-tea, no-micchor, no-fertilizer and often no-fungicide and no-insecticide. It's cheaper, and it has grown me two WR and quite a few national/EGVGA records.

11/7/2009 4:25:32 AM

Bristol R.I. USA

+I'm sure that if you practice this method that there is certain rewards, I respect Don for his insights. Maybe I don't agree with some of his practices however he has gotten me started enough to be able to even argue the point or say that I don't agree or better yet understand certain things...He's a pioneer in the hobby and a true Gentleman.I was able to meet him at the weigh off and he like all growers, is a great person.

11/7/2009 2:44:13 PM

Gold Hill, Oregon

there is a lot of debate about "till vs. no till". i was told that when you till you create a hard pan when the tines hit the bottom of thier travel, they (tines) compact the soil at the bottom of thier travel. the mycelium(hope its spelled correctly) are tore up. bacteria go on a feeding frenzy due to a boost in oxygen, you kill the worms and destroy theire tunnels, and mycorizae colonization (hope its spelled right) are also destroyed. i don't know which way to go. i think i'm not tilling this year. what the heck my pb is 388lb i don't have nothing to lose. we need more input from the big boys and girls.

11/8/2009 3:05:34 AM

Dummer Twp - Ontario

I think most of us like to till as it's easier, get out the big tiller and rip through your garden, its all fluffy and you rake it out and it looks like a million bucks with perfect rows and you sit back and think man thats gonna grow a monster for sure just look at it. It's just like using all chemical ferts, at one time that was the norm because it was easier and thats what most people did, times have changed with respect to ferts and as more of us try the no tile or hand till as I think it should be called it will gain more support. The results of the Europeans cannot be ignored as they have gotten on the same level field as the rest of the record producing areas in a quick amount of time.

Kirk

11/9/2009 5:33:15 AM