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Wi

I've got some stunted secondaries on my plants this year. I think more than normal. It seems like my main vines are growing better than normal, but secondaries not so much. Does anyone have any ideas on this. Some have stopped completely. Everything else about the plants seem normal.

6/29/2009 10:12:47 AM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

Temperature, windscald... is it all seeming to be on one side of the plant?

6/29/2009 10:14:12 AM

Minnesota([email protected])

Chris,
I seem to have a few here an there. I wonder if the heavy hitters see stunted secondaries sometimes? I have some that grow about 3-4' and then end in a cluster of small male flowers. Any heavy hitters care to add their two cents?

6/29/2009 11:56:19 AM

Winston Salem NC

I had the same thing on my 848 MacKenzie this season. it seemed to clear up after 6ft so I dont know what the reason would be either. 12 plants and it was the only one.

6/29/2009 12:35:48 PM

Manchester,N.H.

I seem to have a few every year also. It always seems to be the first or second one. It happens on the same plants every year. It also happens on either side. I think it has something to do with the direction I grow my plants in. I grow east to west.

6/29/2009 12:54:06 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

I've noticed a couple on the east side of a south running main. Let's get to the bottom of this LOL.

6/29/2009 1:56:04 PM

Wi

Most of my problem vines are also grown out 3-4' then just form a big glob. Location on my plants is variable, but cloer to the crown.

6/29/2009 2:52:25 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

2-4d?

6/29/2009 5:46:13 PM

Pataskala,OH

no

6/29/2009 5:59:25 PM

Connecticut

Just a few questions to try and diagnose your problem...

-What are your soil phosphorous levels?
-Any chance you plan on tissue testing the plant(s)?

If you have one plant that is noticeably different you may want to consider a tissue test comparison.

6/29/2009 6:01:34 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

No pesticides/herbicides used. I haven't done a soil test and likely won't do a tissue test. Good suggestions though.

6/29/2009 6:18:35 PM

Farmville, Virginia ([email protected])

to much rain?

6/29/2009 6:20:36 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

Direct map of early stress on plant due to cold/weather/MomNature'sPMS this spring? I have a few slow secondaries sprinkled in the first four (on either side, count down four on one side) on my biggest plants. Nothing deformed or stunted, just like they took their time to get started....

6/29/2009 8:16:38 PM

Rhode Island

matt hits the nail on the head. most times you will find that plants that do not grow secondaries or grow spindly plants are defecient in a few things. most notably phosphouras and spmetimes nitrogen as well.

in 20 years of growing i cant remember ever having spindly plants or plants that dont throw side vines.we have been lucky in that regard even in the early years.

ditto to a tissue test.why wonder when a test will tell you whats wrong? invest in your patch for best results.

these are the usual problems associated with new growers who have yet to learn the basics for growing a healthy plant. it will happen in time .

6/29/2009 9:05:54 PM

Winston Salem NC

another thing i thought of that i done last year is if you bury the main and cover a secondary up with a good amount of soil i have had them not come out. just another thought

6/29/2009 9:38:42 PM

Easton, PA

Chris,
How long is the main vine? I wrote in a few weeks back because my main vine was 7' long and not one single secondary vine had developed. I do believe that it was Maxboostbusa that told me to look for the secondary’s to pop when the vine grew a little more. Sure enough, just in the past 10 days, (with a lot of sun and less rain) my secondary’s have taken off and now are growing about 9"inches per day, with the main now out to 16'.

6/29/2009 10:05:46 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Many good suggestions/comments.
We've had quite a bit of rain here in the past 10 days.
Stress and/or some deficiency is plausable.
I have one plant that is showing this tendency of stunted secondaries the most. The first 1-2 secondaries on each side are normal, then the next two or three on both sides(5 altogher) seem to be stunted. They grew normal for about 4', then are stunted. After these, the secondaries appear normal.

6/29/2009 11:38:31 PM

Wi

I tissue tested last year. Everything was at desireable levels. New soil this year, but prepped the same way and nothing tested deficient in my soil tests. If anything I'm a little low on N, but I'd rather be that way than the other way.

No I didn't spray 2-4-d on my plants....this year. I use round up right up tight to the plants some. I've questioned this. I'd think if I got it on the plant it would wipe out the plant and not just a growing tip or 2.

I have a few mains over 20' and to the untrained eye you'd never know there are a few stunted secondaries around. Just getting a bit creative with the python vines surrounding my pencil vines.

6/30/2009 9:18:12 AM

Wi

Doug, my plants did exactly what you speak of. 2 normal, a couple stunted, then normal again.

6/30/2009 9:18:57 AM

Pocatello ([email protected])

I'm not implying that you would spray 2-4D on your plants. What I'm suggesting is that someone within 500 feet or so has used it! I'm not kidding! (I wish I were...)

If you neighbor uses it, watch out.

2-4D doesn't just go away. It has a "half-life". The half-life ranges from 20 to 200 days. A little bit on your shoes will contaminate your patch. Or if someone sprays, and then the temperatures get warm, say 85 degrees, the 2-4D can form a cloud and wipe out any broadleaf plants in it's path.

If you use 2-4D on your lawn, and then use those grass clippings in your garden, that's disaster.

I'm not telling you that you have 2-4D damage. I'm saying, don't rule it out. It happens all the time. A tiny amount of that stuff can mess up an AG for weeks.

6/30/2009 10:59:39 AM

Pocatello ([email protected])

A friend of mine was using 2-4D in his yard, wearing gloves. Then later he went into the patch with those same gloves, and handled some plants. His plants became terribly messed up... like I say, a low dosage will take weeks (at least) before the chemical breaks down and the plant can recover. A high dosage will simply kill the plant.

In case anyone reading this doesn't know, just about any chemical that you use to treat dandelions or other broadleaf weeds in your lawn.... that's probably 2-4D.

6/30/2009 11:06:03 AM

Pocatello ([email protected])

Sorry folks, but I'm going to continue to rant on 2-4D. I hate this stuff.

I have a neighbor who had a lot of dandelions. He decided that he was going to take care of them "once and for all", so he mounted his four-wheeler with the tank sprayer on the back, and sprayed.

I have a flower bed which is directly in the "wind path" of his yard. That year, we got no blooms on those perennial flowers. The plants looked all screwed up. And my garden, 200 FEET AWAY was messed up for weeks. The side of it that was closest to the wind path was the most messed up, while the far side wasn't so bad.

There are certain "low grade" (cheap) versions of 2-4D that are the worst offenders. There is a new product called "Weed free zone" which is a lot better in that it works in cold temperatures... which means that you can use it in April, or long before other desirable plants are present. But when you use it, SPOT TREAT ONLY. Then, don't even look at your patch for a few days. Don't walk there, don't even let it cross your mind! Don't step on a treated dandelion when you walk across your lawn... and don't let those grass clippings go into your garden for several weeks.

2-4D is one of two chemicals that together were known as "agent orange" during the Vietnam war. I'd try using as little of it as possible, and convince your neighbors to do the same.

6/30/2009 11:29:12 AM

Wi

I believe I've read there are 2 "versions" of 2-4-d...one being much safer than the other in regards to it moving and gassing off.

That said I DID...yes I did spray an entire plant a few years back with 2-4-d. It lived and grew 672#.

6/30/2009 2:59:31 PM

Joliet, IL

my 1041 lst year had only 3 secondaries on one side of the plant for the whole first 10 feet. the other side was normal. i just arrowed them backward and then the second half of the plant was fine, and i kept arrowing those back as well and in the end all spaces got filled up eventually. my 1185 daletas plant this year which is from the 1041 showed the same signs but not as bad. the secondaries took longer to kick in on one side and caught up eventually to the other side.

6/30/2009 5:03:35 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Thanks shazzy. That's encouraging. Especially considering the 1041 didn't do to bad for you last year.

6/30/2009 6:41:15 PM

Bemidji Minnesota

Last year I had one where the side vines self terminated after the fruit was set. I think it was just rationing nutrients, saved me the trouble of having to prune anything.

7/1/2009 5:51:38 PM

Rexburg, Idaho

Any pictures of 2-4D damage??
I'm the "friend" cliff was talking about above, but I am begining to second guess my diagnosis.

7/1/2009 7:08:12 PM

Leamington, Ont.

I have been trying to figure out the same thing for the last three or seasons now. Process of elimination has brought me to thinking that my soil is too wet and a nitrogen deficiency, probably due to leaching. I am again experiencing these same symptoms, so next season I will need to plan a way to increase drainage and keep up with regular nitrogen applications...I'll have to wait and see if that pans out!

7/1/2009 11:01:34 PM