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Upstate S.C.

Alright guys, I know the response that most folks on this board are gonna give me. But just to make sure I thought I would just give it a try. On 4-23-08 at 1:00 AM I started my 2009 growing season. I filed and soaked all eight of my seeds, soaking time was 12 hours. I wrapped them up in a moist folded paper towel and place them all in ziploc bags and then into my germination chamber. The chamber stayed a constant 85 to 90 degrees due to the heat mat. As of 3 miniutes ago NOT ONE of my seed have so much as a crack must less a root. As of 100am tonight it's been four days and nothing. Should I be worried and can I do anything else to help them along. Thanks so very much Chris

4/27/2009 1:40:29 AM

Webster, NY

Are you sure of your temperature? They may still go, but to be on the safe side, you might want to start a couple more seeds.

4/27/2009 3:59:08 AM

what happened to the baby wipe heater?

4/27/2009 7:00:15 AM

Rhode Island

sounds like you did everything ok. not one to root out of eight would indicate to me a problem that occured during germination.not the seeds.
there are only a few common denominators that could cause all eight to not root (in a moist paper towel/wrapped in plastic )within four days )

starting older seeds?

something in the seed soak?

paper towel was saturated rather than just moist?

was anything other than water used to wet the paper towel?

seeds cooked ?( could happen if the temp over 100 degrees.---smell one. if it smells it wont swell.

if you file to much off the seed coat and then soak for 12 hrs the seed may rot? squeeze the seed gently to make sure the shell is still firm.
---we soak for 1 hr after sanding gently around the edges of seed. also sand the tip a bit.

i agree that after four days you should see a small root developing however, sometimes it just takes that fifth or sixth day.

best of luck ---------------------pap

4/27/2009 7:31:02 AM

Santa Rosa, CA

Chris,

It looks like Pap may have covered it with his reply.

My first thought was that the paper towels may be too mosit. Be sure to really ring them out before inserting the seed and placing it in the zip lock baggie.

My second thought was that the plastic bags may be too warm. I put the plastic baggies on a plate that is on top of the heat mat.

This year I have been using a thermostat attached to the heat mat (got the idea from Joel Holland's video)and have had no problems.

I wish you luck with the next batch.

Chuck

4/27/2009 10:46:25 AM

Upstate S.C.

Thanks everyone for the help, Unkdan I didn't use the baby wipes warmer because there is alittle more research and test trials that I would like to do before I use it 100% of the time. Pap, I tried to keep the papertowel only moist, I guess it is possible that they got to wet, as far as the soak solution, I used 3% Perioxcide. The shells still feel hard and all the seeds are new seeds includeing your 610 from last year. My germination chamber is a jiffy type pastic tray with clear plastic dome, the heat mat is underneath the tray, I have towels inside the tray that the bags lay on, so the seeds will not cook. I have a indoor/outdoor thermometer that says the temp inside the dome stays around 85 to 87 degrees. I am so confused...I think if I do have to start a new batch all over, Im gonna scrach the paper towel method all together, there are just to many things that can go wrong, I will use the method that you and Ron used. Thanks again everyone and wish me luck...P.S. My germination chamber is on my diary if anyone would like to see it...

4/27/2009 11:33:01 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Chris, temperature inside the dome might be around 85-87 but what is the actual temperature on top of towels at point of contact with the seeds?

I use a heat mat too with towels on top to regulate the temperature but place my temperature probe directly under the zip lock bag to get the actual temperature that the seeds are getting. More than likely, the temp directly under the seeds is far higher than you think.

I'm surprised you did not use the baby warmer method that you told everyone here about for at least some seeds.

4/27/2009 1:47:17 PM

Deer Park WA

Chris,

We used your idea of the baby wipe warmer and had 100% germination sucess (first time ever), it did take a bit of tweeking with the opening of the lid to get it at a steady 85 degrees. We used a small dial type therometer tucked into a moist towel to monitor the temps. After four days I hate to say it but your probably going to have to start some more...

Good luck,

Gerry

4/27/2009 4:43:03 PM

Minnesota

I did it the paper towel baggie way and after four days nothing, so, I put them in pots and as of today one is on its way up, I peaked at the other and its starting to do something.

4/27/2009 5:07:32 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I bought one of these baby wipe warmers. My daughter who just had a baby said there is a re-call on them because they have caught on fire and in a few case burned down a few homes. I played around with mine and got it tweeked at 85 also. I finally put some of my own seeds in it to try it. As four days went by then the fifth day the digital temp was reading 107. Nothing was touched. Then and there I decided not to use it anymore.

4/27/2009 9:37:15 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Store bought Hydrogen Peroxide is already 3%, Chris, you said you used 3% H2O2 solution, but did you dilute it to 10%. Sounds like you did everything right, at least some of the seeds should have popped.

4/27/2009 9:53:50 PM

Manitoba,Canada

Just wondering where you got the water from to soak the seeds. I never use tap water, always rain water.

4/27/2009 10:34:00 PM

Jefferson Me

SCTROOPER, Just thought I'd send out a thanks for the diaper wipe warmer idea. It worked great for me.Now granted I'm pretty new at this stuff but heres what I did with 100% germination success.I filed all seeds around them,and the seeds that had the hard shell coats I gently removed the hard shinny layer. Some seeds didn't have that hard seed coat those I just filed the edges.I then summereged them in warm water with a couple drops of neptunes harvest and put them in the wipe warmer to let them soak for about 4to 6hours depending on the age of the seeds.Then I use the method Bill Clark taught me.Take a paper towel wet it, and make fist with the wet towel in the palm of you hand and squeeze it quite hard there won't be a whole lot of moisture left in it. Then roll the seed in 1" folds and put it in a zip lock baggy and put it back into your germination chamber. In my case that was the wipe warmer.From practice this winter I found that if you don't leave the lid open about a 1/4 inch you will cook them.From there all seeds I done this with they germinated in 22-32hours all 19 seeds that I started for myself and for others started.Once I saw at least a 1/8 inch of root started they went into the pots and into a china closet that had a heat lamp in it keeping the temp between 75-90. As soon as the cots came up threw the soil and opened up they went into the greenhouse.When all was said and done from the time I filed and soaked (4/8/09)until they were transplanted into the ground was one week 4/15/09.I think that It's possible that yours may have been too wet.Good luck,thanks again for the wipe warmer idea. Edwin Pierpont

4/27/2009 10:41:52 PM

SE Minnesota

For me I have started 15 seeds by jordan rivington's method. soak them for 6-10 hrs and then I put the seed into a paper towl inside my chamber with an old fashion warmer. "my chamber" stays a pretty constant 85 degrees. I've had success as early as 17 hrs for new seed and 48 hrs for older seed. I am learning that patients is the key:)

4/27/2009 11:16:19 PM

New Carlisle IN

I've always had great success using the paper towel ziplock method, untill this year. I used a different brand called *ZAP* (really cheap) and had miserble results. Let's face it all paper towels are not created the same way, different dyes, lubrecants, ect
Terry

4/28/2009 12:03:24 AM

Upstate S.C.

Wow, Thanks so very much for the responses. I just got home from work and was hoping that I would get some help and low and behold it looks like I have, thanks again for everyones help and for the growers that called me by phone and check on me. Now on to the seeds.

North Shore, I tend to think you may be right. I put the probe close to the towels laid on the bottem and it's over 90 so that's a thought. I just don't really know how to fix it IF this is the problem, and as far as the warmer as I was saying earlier, THIS is my real first year growing in my mind. And I guess the baby wipes warmer is such a new idea to most folks I just wanted to do more practice with it. I did have great results with it HOWEVER I also had the same results with the Jordan Rivington's method so it was a toss up. But thanks again for the help.

Richard B. I did the very same thing tonight. I took all the seed and looked over them, they still look very good. Shell is still hard and there is no odor so I placed them in pots and then into the chamber. So we'll see how it goes keep your fingers crossed.

Andy, I diluted it. I used a couple of drops to about a cup of water.

PUSSYWHIPPED.....LOL....LOL....sorry thats just a badass name, anyway I used regular tap water. I don't think at this early of a stage it matters, but I could be wrong.

Thanks race for the nice words, I guess I should use my own method, I guess when I got such great seeds from such great folks I just didnt want to screw it up, lets hope I didn't screw up to bad.

Bigbuck and dpsnoopy, I was the same way during practice, I guess thats why I decided to use the paper towel method because my practice runs were off the charts.

Thanks again everyone, and I will try and update my diary so everyone can see. I did want to say that the 610 wallace had started germinating when I got home so, just wanted to throw that out there but thats the only one. Sincerly Chris

4/28/2009 1:19:38 AM

Murfreesboro, TN, USA

SCTROOPER, I feel your pain. I am now on day 4 and nothing, but I am also 675 miles away from my seeds and have to depend on my wife to let me know if they are coming up. If nothing happens by Thursday I will have to conduct some exploratory surgery to see what has happened. My thought, based on this thread, I might have cooked my seeds instead of providing a nice warm environment for them to germinate in. Lesson learned, and a very expensive lesson if they don't come up.

My set up is with a heat pad without the use of a paper towel and baggie, but just placing the seed in dirt and let it go. The distance between the pad and the seeds is about ½ an inch. I think my issue is with the distance between the heat mat and the containers. I have been measuring air temperature, but have not been measuring soil temperature. This could be two completely different temperatures and I am thinking that the soil is much warmer than the air. I will have to see if I can get my wife to perform a few experiments for me when she gets home from work. I will have to let you know the outcome of the experiment if you all are interested. I am going to meat probe the soil and compare that to the air to try to make a long distance analysis of the problem.

SCTROOPER I am sorry for your loss of time, but want to thank you for posting your findings. I also want to thank the rest of the growers for their responses. It has been very helpful.

4/28/2009 9:53:59 AM

Simi valley, ca

I have tryed the paper towel method with poor results & will stick to the peat pots with 1/3-1/3-1/3- mix , my starting box is wood wine box with 2 baffels & 2 light bulbs behind bafels 15 watts , & use a towel on top to regulate temp , i can keep a constant 85-90* , I like to check them at 36 hours up to 40 hours , no later because if there moved with to long root it may be damaged ! , Many will pop in 36-40 hours Once i know its poped leave alone untill you see it at surface!

4/28/2009 10:09:34 AM

Connecticut, USA

I had problems with a heat mat in the past spiking with high temps. Now I simply put my seeds in a small cooler and heat it with hot water bottles filled with tap water straight from the faucet. A coffee filter works better than paper towels too. So far this year I am five for five in under 36 hours in the cooler.

4/28/2009 8:28:36 PM

San Luis Obispo, Ca.

It will happen!

4/29/2009 6:09:52 PM

Sort of Sunny Sometimes, WA

Trooper,did they ever germ?

4/29/2009 7:40:01 PM

Upstate S.C.

BOOM BOOM, and everyone the only seed that germinated in the pots was the 610 wallace, however I dug it up so Im not sure if it's will survive the root ball was hugh to be only 2 days old WOW I hope it make it. All the other seeds didn't so I have started 5 new seeds, they have all been filed and are soaking at this minute and here is my new lineup.

812 Beauchemin 08 (1041 Mckie X 998 Pukos 05)
1535.5 Glasier 07 (1092 Martin X 992.5 Glasier)
820 Van Kooten 08 (998 Pukos X 1689 Jutras07)
1279 Bartow 08 (1566 Rodonis X 1385 Jutras)
1118 Jutras 08 (845 Bobier X 1086 Wallace)
I will let everyone know how it goes, thanks again....

4/29/2009 8:12:21 PM

Woburn, MA.

Good Luck Chris. I hope you have better luck this time.

4/29/2009 8:39:10 PM

Upstate S.C.

Thanks so much buddy, I belive I will. I just took them out of their 1 hour soak and place them in peat pot's and place them in the germination chamber. Cross your fingers.

4/29/2009 10:05:26 PM

Murfreesboro, TN, USA

Well, I am officially at day 7 and nothing. I am going home tonight to see what I have. Do some exploratory surgery. My wife performed some tests to see what the soil temperature was. The readings ranged from 84 - 89 degrees as you go deeper into the pot.

At this point, I had my wife discontinue the use of the heat mat and just make sure the seeds are well watered. It appears I will be starting again when I get home tonight. 0 for 5, this just stinks because now I am over a week behind.

SCTrooper I am glad to see your 610 came up. I was hoping to grow that one as well. Doesn't look like it good luck and let us know how the next batch does. Are you trying anything different?

4/30/2009 8:04:02 AM

Cameron,ontario Team Lunatic

A problem I see often is that growers file them down too much & then soak them too long. A light filing is all that's needed & soak for no longer than 2 hrs. Like Pap said, if you file them down too much & water gets directly into the seed case, it can cause the seed to rot from the inside. We started 13 seeds & got 13 seedlings, 100% success rate. All were up & out of the dirt after 3 days. Good luck with the next batch.

Phil

4/30/2009 8:52:41 AM

[email protected]

We're at 100% on my Dell laptop keyboard which beats the heck out of my $45 heat mat. LOL

4/30/2009 4:35:31 PM

ordinary,VA

I use what i call the Joe Pukos way!! check out Ken D. post.
Joe told me about this method years ago-works for me.

4/30/2009 9:00:03 PM

Minnesota

I used the cable t.v. box, worked great.

4/30/2009 11:38:38 PM

Murfreesboro, TN, USA

I arrived home last night and began to exhume the first seed. It was soft and when squeezed water came squirting out. I went to the next seed, this actually started to grow. You could see the tiny tap root exiting the bottom of the seed and was getting ready to move. The third seed I looked at, I squeezed and this white pussy stuff oozed out of it. I am going to get some new pots just in case some sort of virus or bug is in the pot. I am disappointed, but I learned more about seeds and the environment they require to grow in.

Thanks again for sharing all of your methods of germination. I am going to do it a little different this time. Last year, I was at 100% germination, and so far this year I am at 0 % germination. On to my back up plants.

5/1/2009 7:58:11 AM

Upstate S.C.

The wallace 610 was moved under the light today, however it appears the cods leaf were burned alitte. Also the very tips for some reason seemed fused together, it was confusing. Then I realized it was because of the high heat during germination. The very tips of both cod leafs were broke off because of this. I don't think its gonna be a big problem it may take a little extra time to grow but once it gets started it should be fine. The others are doing fine and should be up either tommorrow or next day.

5/1/2009 2:27:45 PM