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Blacksburg, VA, USA

My first year trying for a giant and I have a general discussion question that might be a bit embarassing:

Background: I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Ecuador and a general cash crop in my region was the Naranjilla (AKA lulo). It's kind of like a tomato, but with huge leaves. At any rate the farmers would intentionally spray the flower with a very dilute concentration of 2,4-D, and the fruits would grow much larger than w/o treatment. It makes some kind of sense, as 2,4-D is an analog of a plant growth regulation hormone. High concentrations are toxic, however lower concentrations might literally be steroids....

I'm sure somebody out there has tried this.. what have been your experiences? Would this be considered 'cheating'? Is it just always toxic at any concentration w/ pumpkins? I'm going to give it a shot either way.

3/24/2009 6:44:39 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

24D is a good way to have dead pumpkin. If you even have a trace in your spray equipment, it'll kill the vine.

3/24/2009 6:48:33 PM

Cincinnati,OH

Iv'e read many post over the years of 2,4D overspray and drift. I can't remember any good results.
You could try it but I wouldn't use it on anything I wanted to keep.

3/24/2009 7:00:35 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Tremor did some experiments on this, along time ago.

3/24/2009 7:28:33 PM

Puyallup, WA

Ask Erin Huff....Boob Boom. She will share her adventures with 2,4-D.

3/24/2009 7:47:04 PM

Eastern Washington State

Based on what I've read from the scientific literature, it would seem that applying plant growth regulators (2,4-D is one) could work. Problem is that it seems that the amount applied and timing of application is crucial and different for every crop. Get it wrong and it'll hurt more than help. Most of us only have a few plants and don't want to take that kind of risk. You might want to look up some of the seaweed extracts people are applying, they are likely to have some growth regulators in them.

3/24/2009 7:49:10 PM

Sort of Sunny Sometimes, WA

Sheesh Stan. . .I'll pretend I didn't see that. . .

3/24/2009 9:46:25 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

WHoa.....lol

3/24/2009 10:21:31 PM

San Jose [email protected]

is this giant jack in disguise? lol

3/24/2009 10:59:25 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

Based on the drift I get from my neighbors, I wish 2-4D could be banned. Well, I'm not normally one to get crazy like that, but let me tell you, 2-4D will do more damage than it will do good. I guess you could call it "meth for plants."

And even if you put some on one plant, be prepared to have all plants go down.

3/25/2009 5:07:45 PM

[email protected]

I treated an AG to extremely low doses of 2,4-D a few years ago. I don't recall the PPM but it was consistent with existing disciplines. The plant grew like mad with very long internodal growth. That wouldn't have been a problem in a larger patch but all the sets aborted. A 45-50' main with no fruit is pretty useless.

3/25/2009 7:22:44 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Phenoxys do some pretty funky things. Agent Orange, used widely and indiscriminately in Vietnam, was a phenoxy. Agent Orange was very effective as a defoliant and obtained its sinister reputation thanks to our military hierarchy, which sent troops into freshly defoliated zones without protection. It was also applied undiluted from C130 and C123 aircraft straight from the barrels. The name "Agent Orange" was derived from the fact that the black barrels it was shipped in had orange bands around them. Agent White was the same way. It was picloram, another effective broadleaf/brush killer/defoliant. Too bad the government misused it. It was very effective here in the states for right-of way vegetation control and safe when used according to label.

3/25/2009 10:08:47 PM

Massillon, Ohio

i agree with cliff!! BAN IT!! i had a whole season ruined b/c of drift.

3/25/2009 10:23:45 PM

Nashville, TN

C.M., Tremor and giantpumpkindude.

Very fascinating and intriguing information you've presented. I was unaware of most of it. (Not my realm of study) Perhaps it was the fact that I used a mixture of 2-4D and Glycophosphate around my patch of three years to control weeds, that the final year I had ENORMOUS, healthy-looking plants that had more difficult times in setting fruit. This could've been as much a contributing factor as the record drought/heat wave that hit me in 2007.

But this year, with a new plot (untreated with anything but compost)and the mulching weed control system - I will not be using 2-4D right next to plants.

BTW, I'm not sure how the 2-4D was applied near the other patches. But I never lost a plant to it. And I used the product within 3" of my plants. But you have to apply it with very carefully with no wind. I'll still use it on my fence lines.

3/26/2009 9:09:14 AM

Eastern Washington State

Soundbyte of the day "Meth for plants" lol Cliff!

2,4-D, agent orange, and dicamba are exactly like that. Plant basically has unregulated growth that eventually kills it. Maybe someone who does agricultural chemicals can chime in on residuals, it seems to me that 2,4-D could hang around in the soil. I've used it in tissue culture media (yes a TINY bit is sometimes useful) and it can withstand extremes of pH and can be autoclaved without losing activity.

Scienceteacher, it looks like your 'experiment will be repeated. Late last summer I treated bindweed around my patch with a mixture of 2,4-D and roundup. Watched the overspray so the AG's were fine, but now I'm worried about the new roots this year. I want a beer and its only 7:45..

3/26/2009 10:25:49 AM

Nashville, TN

I do know from the ramblings that my analytical chemistry professor used to go into - that the residues from herbicides tend to stay within soils for an extended period of time. Even decades in some cases.

I have also read an article a while back (I'll see if I can find it) that showed a problem with using manure from horses grazing on 2-4D treated pasture. It apparently limited growth of certain popular species.

And might I suggest a little shot of Banana Rum? Tried some after a convention last week. One word: KILLER!

3/26/2009 1:58:01 PM

Blacksburg, VA, USA

Thanks so much everybody for all the input. I have an isolated location where I will be trying this little experiment. I'm a beekeeper, and work several bee yards located a few miles apart from each other. I've got room for a couple of pumpkin hills per yard. I'll try this in one isolated yard. I have access to both an amine and an ester form of 2,4-D. I've been told that the ester will penetrate more deeply into the tissues... However from what I've heard here that might not be a good thing even at trace concentrations.
From what I remember about naranjilla cultivation, only the flower was sprayed w/ it. I still can't seem to find the concentration, but it is very, very dilute. They would mix it into a little spray bottle and give each flower a little spritz. Tremor: perhaps application after the first fruit is set would be ideal?
I'll be reporting my progress, and more likely my failures...

3/26/2009 2:07:16 PM

[email protected]

I'm not recommending phenoxy herbicides for anything in the patch. Do a search for GA3. Much beetter but still touchhy stuff.

3/26/2009 7:31:28 PM

Eastern Washington State

Tremor that seems to jive with my original feelings and first post. However I understand maximo's response to the siren song of pixie dust. I'm just too coward to try it!

3/26/2009 8:00:52 PM

Blacksburg, VA, USA

I'm a sucker for the pixie dust. Since it's my first year I'll be courageous enough to try. If this hobby fits my typical pattern it'll either stick and I'll become more conservative, or it'll fail miserably and I'll move on to greener pastures and shinier pixie dust.

3/26/2009 9:31:09 PM