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Denver, CO

Every year I seem to have problems getting fruit set in that golden period from the last week of June to the end of the first week of July. Recent research has led me to believe this is more critical then ever. I am always about a week late, which is a huge difference if I want that really big one.

I’ve been using soil cables, heated/cooled hoop houses and mild amounts of Miracle Gro. I germinate around the 20th of April and plant about May 1st or so, normal for our area in Colorado. Try to minimize root ball disturbance when planting.

So, what else does everyone do? There has to be some great advice on how to get set in time. Or perhaps my techniques doing the above are shoddy. Those of you that regularly set fruit on time please chime in. The more help the better!

3/5/2009 9:41:20 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

ForGET the miraclegro. I had good luck with lining my pots with newspaper, that protects the roots during the transplant AND it will break down totally in just days. I use 1 gallon nursery pots I pre cut the sides then duct taped back together so I could easily open the pot and remove the rootball with a minimum of fuss.

I shade the intended female at least three days before bagging until the fruit is too big to go under a lawnchair, that helps. From there I build the shelter for the pumpkin.

I did not use ice and a cooler, just shaded the female I selected to bag a few days later, moved the vine to start the curve, and shaded it with a white resin lawnchair with a concrete block on top from the time of selection onwards.
And fertilized right after sun was up and it was still cool. Out of 5 growers and 8 vines I was the only one to set and keep fruit during that period here and we were in the 90's to over 100.

YMMV, I'm about 1000-1200 feet lower than Denver... but we were beastly hot during the setting time. My .000002 cents worth.

3/5/2009 10:12:40 PM

South East

lay of the ferts completely come pollinating time, no miracle grow. seaweeds ok. no high nitro ferts.
try a larger hoophouse keeping it longer inside and add some fishmeal, bloodmeal, castings, kelp, bonemeal in your planting are or hole. In moderate amounts and see what happens.

3/5/2009 10:38:07 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

ghopson,

As a fellow Rocky Mountain grower, I know exactly what you're talking about. Most others around the country don't know what it's like to have 90's during the day, and then as soon as the sun goes down, the ground is too cold to walk on with bare feet.

What this is, is NOT about getting the fruit to set. It's about getting a female open on the vine between 10 and 15 feet during the first week of July. I've been trying for eight years, and it's very hard to get the vines that long by that time.

The best I've ever been able to do is vine about 5 feet long at the first of June, and 9 or 10 feet long by the first of July. But then you still have another 10 days before the female there begins to open! So you're at July 10th with a female, first on the vine, opening at 9 feet. What do you do? To get to 15 feet, you're into late July!

I've been thinking about this long and hard this winter. The only thing I can think of is... drumroll please... two words: SOIL TEMP.

A few years ago we went to Iowa and Illinois. I was shocked to see a sweltering 84 degrees at 10pm. Here, at 10pm it's already 60 and heading for a low of 50. In June, we usually have a week in the 30's.

Do you see the same in Colorado?

All I can think to do is to add some sand because the particles can actually retain a small amount of heat, and to carefully use clear plastic around the base of the plant. I'm hoping to heat up the soil long before the seedlings go out this year. Beyond that, I'm open to suggestions.

3/5/2009 10:59:36 PM

Picton,ON ([email protected])

Getting more air in your soils will help them warm up quicker and hold the warmth. Added OM, leaves vermiculite should help. Good drainage is important. You may need to sub soil or tile drain. (the sand idea may be good too, or corase gravel)

Have you considered adding some additional Nitrogen material in May? 4-5 lbs ammonium sulfate/ 1000ft2 might make a big diferance.

How is your P (phosphorous) levels? Cold damp soils have restricted phosphorous availability and this will efct root and vine developement. If P is on the low side, consider adding some granular phos material. Foliar high phos ferts can help as well.

John

3/6/2009 12:07:55 AM

Eugene,OR

Put up a huge greenhouse. It will hold heat better through the night and your plants will grow like crazy. Check out the pics in my diary. I don't know that a huge plant early is the answer to winning the contest, but it can be done if you provide the right growing enviornment for the plant to grow.

3/6/2009 12:17:33 AM

Oz

Yep,greenhouse.
If the surface temp of the soil/air is getting too cold,try a partial/mini green house.

Square bales of hay,running parallel along the growth "line" of the plant,could provide a insulated cold barrier.
White frost fabric could be flipped over the plant before sundown.
Flexible pvc rafters,could be speared into the ground,past the root zone.

You would have to use raised plant beds,and side drains.
One hard rain,without raised beds,and drains,and you get Lake Pumpkin.
You could use insulated board,rather than hay bales.
Hay bales can bring weeds,and mold/fungus.

3/6/2009 8:31:57 AM

Rhode Island

your starting on time but always end up pollinating after the first week in july? this eems to be your original question.

the use of heating cables around the young seedling is very good. dito to your heated greenhouse as well. it cetainly sound like your doing everything right.

so if the plant and soil are warm enough,and the young seedling is protected from the cold nights early on, why does the plant grow slow enough that you end up pollinating after peak period?

first id ace that miracle grow and get some other form of natural fertalizers like kelp,fish or humic acid into the planting area.

secondly and most importantly what does your soil test indicate? what is it lacking in? you may very well be lacking in something thats holding the plants ability to grow well? (also has the plant been hardened off correctly before transplanting into the garden?)

lastly, is their any snake oils that you are adding to your seed starter mix in hopes of an earlier start? some of the products on the market today can hinder rather than help a new plants ability to grow

pap

3/6/2009 8:42:16 AM

Pocatello ([email protected])

Yes, let me back up and state that if I didn't use a hoophouse, my plants would be four feet long in early July, lol. A hoophouse is critical. Even with that, I have trouble.

My hoophouses have always been subject to high winds. In recent years I've tried to cheat a little bit by using a wall-o-water for the first week, and then putting up a smaller circular greenhouse. I figure it's better to have a greenhouse for 3 or 4 weeks than to have it destroyed before the end of April. But I suppose nothing works quite like a real HH for raising the temp.

The larger the HH, the more heat is generated.

I also use ammonium sulfate, the only fert that my plants respond to. My phosphorus is high and my potassium is high. Of course, nitrogen is fleeting. But I also have high salts, so I try to be careful in adding all these salts.

But when the HH comes down, I'm still dealing with cold overnight temps. July is the only month that is guaranteed not to freeze.

I'm thinking of a combination of raised planting beds, and some strategically placed clear plastic. I need supplemental rooting of the vines of course, so my plastic might be a five foot diameter circle immediately around the base of the plant. Best laid plans....

3/6/2009 10:50:56 AM

Bristol,RI,USA.

I agree with PAP and make the same observations try a bigger starter pot 8” cow pots add micro to your starter mix ( use a prograde started mix ) and start April 17th giving you three days to harden off plants putting them outside days and in before temps start to fall for the evening a hoop house that is 8’ by 10’ heated at night I like to cover small plants with large styro cooler at night in hoop house some times bigger hoop house have drafts and I start to cover main as soon as it lays down

3/6/2009 10:56:54 AM

Colorado

greg,you might try two gallon buckets.cut the pails in half and duct tape back together.I start same time as you and put the three true leaf plamnts outside in mid may into 4x5 temporary greenhouses.I'm usually 12 feet plus by the first of july for pollinating.Even last year with a relatively cool spring. maybe this year dont plant them in the shade lol

3/6/2009 11:43:34 AM

Pleasant Hill, Or

From the description of your methods and equipment, I don't see why you wouldn't have a large plant at pollination time. One thing you are not telling us is how big your plant is, and how big you think it should be.

There are a lot of great ideas here that will help a good early season start. One thing to consider is what your greenhouse material is made out of. Maybe your plastic is blocking some UV?

I'd caution you not to "push" your plant too much. I think it is more important to build a good root base, than have a large plant. If your top out grows you roots, the plant will be out of balance and fruit growth will suffer.

Maybe just start your plants one week earlier?

Thad

From your description of your methods and equipment, I don't see why your

3/6/2009 12:34:03 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

I usually start seeds third week of April, and put plants out in the fourth week.

The idea of UV blockage is a interesting one. Hmmm...

3/6/2009 12:37:51 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Greg,

What size was your plant? We met the pollination window, first time ever for me and BiZ. We were at 12' plus also. Joe was a few dayZ earlier last year. Wont happen this year.....I already have plants going....Beat yah this year Joe....HA!
We like AgroK, Kelp Meal, Fish Seaweed, Compost Tea and Hard Water......Our pots are wide and deep.

GrowZem BIG

PS COJoe, I will have male pollen here soon.

WiZZy

3/6/2009 3:38:36 PM

Western NY

Have you tried yelling at them? Culling a few to serve as an example?

Sounds like you're on the right track with the heating cables. As others have suggested, focus on creating as little transplant shock as possible.

3/6/2009 3:46:08 PM

Denver, CO

Great Repsonses everyone! This is what makes this site the best there is. Collective collaberation of many great growers to help out just one guy. You cant beat it!

My plants are at about the 9-1o' stage at first of July with one or two side vines out to 10 feet or so. Takes another 10 to 14 days to get a useable female on.

Sounds like I could make a bigger hoop house with ground cover and better plastic, use better ferts with warmer soil temps, use bigger, possibly lined, starter pots and yell and torment a few parts of the vine to "motivate" the rest of it! Soil is in good shape this year per Craig Lembke.

Keep the ideas comming!

Thanks a lot!!!

3/6/2009 6:07:37 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

Let me mention one other thing... when I tried soil cables years ago, I found that they don't do anything unless you also use plastic over the soil to keep the heat in. Without the plastic, they were pretty much useless.

Then again, if you use plastic, and don't use cables, the temperature rise is nearly the same as if you had both..........

3/6/2009 6:35:25 PM

Lloydminster/AB

I use two stages of protection. I start with small 5x8 wooden coldframes(with heat cables installed in Oct.) that I can erect when there is still snow on the ground. They will do until the end of may when I erect 16 x 18 hoophouses like the ones Joel has in his videos. I clip the ends on so they can be rolled up or down to provide ventilation on warm days. By the end of June the main vine will be growing out of the end and the secondaries will have grown out the sides. Cutting holes in the plastic where the vines penetrate adds some extra ventilation. My weather is much like Cliffs so I leave these up all year. Transplant shock is not a factor because my heated cold frames are much warmer than my house. I can usually pollinate by mid June With this system.

3/7/2009 12:54:58 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Thanks Don, that is good to know. I'm going to go with a larger hoophouse this year and try soil cables if I can find them.

Do you eventually remove the plastic or leave the sides on during the summer months?

3/7/2009 9:05:49 PM

Lloydminster/AB

I try to leave the plastic on. It gets quite windy during summer so ventilation is not a problem though when it gets the hottest there's never any wind. I have a low flow sprinkler that I turn on when It gets real warm. I never know if it will be 40 or 0 so though this is not ideal it covers most temps.

3/8/2009 11:10:51 AM

Midway, UT

I don't know if Joe ever tried it last year but there was some talk about using a diamond pattern to help push the main out faster. The idea is to have shorter side vines initally so the main would have more energy to push out faster and to put more leaves closer to the fruit. I may try that pattern on one plant this year.

Biz tried something last year that I'm going to do this year. He put some clear plastic down on the soil in the planting area about two weeks before planting. He can give you more details, but he said he found the soil heated nicley without ever getting too hot.

3/8/2009 1:37:37 PM

Gold Hill, Oregon

poly remay for hoop houses comes in different light transparencies. 50% blocks 50% of the light. 75% blocks 75% of the light and so on.

3/9/2009 4:51:16 AM

Colorado

I just want to say that diamond pattern was my idea but I havent tried it yet.It's still on the drawing board.I'm going to try it in my wider plots this year-anything to stay ahead of the wiz

3/9/2009 3:39:32 PM

Utah

I live in a similar climate.
I think Cliff is on the right track... soil temperatures. and it has been addressed well here. I think the other main aspect you need to deal with is good soil- some have mentioned thoughts to help improve your soil. lots of OM. etc.. From my own experiences it play a big part.
I think the other things that helps me is to pollenate on time are... Patch location. My patch has a fence to the north of it which relects a lot of heat to it in the early spring to help warm up the soil. of course it does the same thing in July & August which hurts. Which leads to my next thing. Shade cloth. I cover the entire patch with shade cloth... I usually put it up at the end of June. This helps keep the patch cool during the hots days and warm during the cool nights.

3/10/2009 11:58:43 AM

Minnesota([email protected])

I'm wondering if certain pruning techniques could help the mainvine grow faster. Such as maybe pruning off every other secondary before the fruit??? I don't have any evidence supporting this, as I've only tried it once. Something to consider....maybe someone chime in regarding this.

3/10/2009 1:09:59 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

CoJoe....Do you need any pollen yet.....Ill cut a few just in case....Diamond Pattern..??....lol

3/10/2009 3:38:38 PM