Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Rhode Island

just like that favorite fishing spot once the word gets out the banks are lined with followers
likewise once a fundraising idea becomes a success others will also join in.its not just human nature its complimentary.

once there were only a few seed auctions, now ? there are long lists and lotteries just to get one on line.

seed promos abound now where a couple years ago there were none. ditto for the smaller clubs that depend on fundraising at raffles to support their programs.

there are so many clubs now and we all need funding that its become a off season of fundraising (ie) --- whos got the best seeds to offer for the money.

i can only speak of our own club but we raise 70% of our yearly operating expenses from two areas, seed promos and seed auctions, with our sponsor fee supplying the balance.

my point is sooner or later every club will need to rethink how they raise club funds. most club membership fees are used up publishing and mailing three to four newsletters.

personally i think clubs need to look for additional sponsorship and /or ideas to finance their weigh-offs.

do you have any suggestions? here are a couple of mine.

several clubs join together for one large auction with many multiple lots of desirable seeds. --- split the profits

form a search committee and seek out big name sponsors and/or locations. ----create a need and desire for your product.

run your own weigh-off, charge for parking and provide your own people to run food concessions -- lots of money to be made between a $5.00 parking fee and those food booths.

join forces with another club in your area. --strength in numbers

thanks

pap

12/26/2008 8:20:34 AM

Pumpkinhead (Team Brobdingnagian)

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

E-distribution of newsletters and other info.

Recipients can print off their own copies... saves postage and printing for the club. That is what we will be doing here.

We are also looking at merchandise to be sold for fundraising....

12/26/2008 9:44:18 AM

Marvin11

Have a few Bigger weigh-offs. Like 5 Big ones in the north east etc. Great ideas pap.

Martin

12/26/2008 11:15:38 AM

ArvadaBoy

Midway, UT

The RMGVG doubled the audience at the Jared's weigh-off to about 2,500 people this year by using the media. We sent out press releases to all of the major media outlets and had live shots from The Wiz's pumpkin patch which brought in large numbers of people to the weigh-offs. In all I think we had about 13 newspaper articles, 3 TV broadcasts, and 1 radio broadcast prior to the weigh-offs. That brought in the crowds. All of it cost us nothing to do and was not a ton of time. Once you have an audience you have revenue potential. We had a single hot dog stand at the weigh-off that was setup at the last minute and every thing at that stand was sold except for about 4 pop cans. Next year I envision bbq, pumpkin bread stands, and hopefully a number of other stands bringing in more revenue. Seed auctions are great but envision what selling ribs and carmel candy apples to a large audience could do in a day!?

The Wiz and I have also talked about the potential of having the GPC selling national sponoships to the weigh-offs. On a national level there is a large audience to sell with big sponsorship revenue potential that could be shared by all of the groups.

I think there is also some potential with ebay style online seed auctions with combined groups. I showed something to the Wiz along these lines that I think could work quite for a large number of groups. If you have any interest drop my an email and I can walk you through a demo. [email protected]

12/26/2008 11:25:08 AM

Columbus Ohio

I was talking about this several days ago about having one news letter for all the groups. Each group could send a small fee for each person. Stories and new technology could come from the entire pumpkin community. Maybe be a monthly magazine and you get a discount if you are a member of a group.

12/26/2008 8:01:10 PM

Actually I believe there is a lot to be said for numerous smaller weigh-offs if the clubs have the necessary support. Big super weigh-offs only benefit a small number of top tier growers. Of Course the media prefers large events but we don't grow for the media & they clearly have not shown us any reason to cater to them.

12/26/2008 8:26:22 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

I'm stepping up press for 2009... and I think we need to keep the smaller weighoffs.

12/26/2008 9:12:11 PM

Gold Hill, Oregon

with the economy the way it is some people will have a hard time driving 2 or 300 miles to attend a wheighoff.i got lucky and got 10th place this year at harry and david wheighoff which was good enough for $100.00. if i would have gone to canby or half moon bay that would have cost me a ton of money at $4.00 a gallon of gas and i wouldn't have placed with my 388#. now i have a 10th place ribbon that i can be proud of showing. i do agree with you pap with more and more clubs being formed and a limited amount of desirable seeds, something needs to be done. maybe the clubs could sell pumpkin growing dvd's, how to water, how to fertilize, how to make mulch, how to vermicompost, how to care for an ag, etc. sell tee shirts. anyway just my .00002 cents.

12/27/2008 2:20:30 AM

Rhode Island

big pumpkin dreamer has hit on a very strong nerve within the growing community. the competition.
there will alwayd be three types of competitors at a weigh-off. inexperienced ( newbee), some experience (second and third year growers), knows a lot (perenial top five finisher at any weigh-off)
while its true that a grower with little chance of competing for a top prize will not drive to a distant weigh-off, a top five grower would drive almost anywhere depending on a couple things. a chance to win and a chance to win.
seeing old friends is a great feeling as well but, the competition is the fuel that drives us.

personally ? i always felt everyone who grows a pumpkin and brings it to a weigh-off deserves some recognition. its for that reason at our sngpg weigh-offs we always find a way to present every contestant with something to remember the day.

a lot is also made of new growers vs veteran growers. a need for seperate competitions for new growers? a junior weigh-off? heres my take on the subject.

ron and i grew for years and always took a back seat to many growers at any weigh-off we attended.we asked questions, met growers and developed contacts.
we continued over time to improve our gardening edcuation which improved our pumpkin growing skills.

my point? its a competition. a level playing field for everyone.
just as in any competition you cant expect to win every race you enter. like a cross country runner you first learn to finish the race, then you learn how to pace yourself in the middle of the pack, then? you learn how to finish with a kick.

pap

pap

12/27/2008 9:20:34 AM

WiZZy

Little-TON - Colorado

This year we indeed got a bit lucky and did quite very well with the media.....All to the credit of Eddy....That pumpkin brought out the crowd along with the live radio show at Jareds taunting the people to come out to the event. Problem was we had no "wares to sell the crowd" We could of sold 200 of those flashey pumpkin pins I have gotten from the Niaraga event. Tee ShirtZ galore, as it was we signed up 22 new club members and I have 250 names, and phone numbers I cant get too yet wanting free seeds. A marketing dream but I think we missed the opportunity to generate a lot of revenue for the club. I need to retire to run it.....and convince my wife too...lol.

I think we have a lot of energy out there that if focused can achieve a national type sponsor, if not theres is enough momentum to localize the events and profit off of the energy at the events enough to sustain club growth and potential.

We are going to step up our Junior event and rally off of that for the major WO event.....

My dream someday for our club iZ to have enough revenue to hire tour buses to drive by Master Scherber's house sorta like they had on Jurassic Park....lol ....and visiting other members showing off the patches returning back to HXXXXX gardens where the all day festivites is topped of by a live concert.......Just wait and see....It will happen!

12/27/2008 10:08:19 AM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Fundraising isn't exactly my idea of fun but necessary nonetheless. The club(s) who are the most creative will, no doubt, do better than those who depend on a few pumpkin related events to raise their funds. Sponsorship is great if you can get it. Pap is exactly right, approach it like a business and develope a plan. First, what is it that your club wishes to accomplish? Once that is determined, partner with as many groups or agencies as your club sees fit, including the media if it's part of your plan. How can you get to your destination if you don't know where you're going? Start a local weigh off if distance or money is an issue. You can decide to give every contestant a prize of some sort but you need the funds first.

I think we need to be realistic about fundraising. Around event time, involving the media to get crowds to attend your event is great and then offer consessions of all kinds. What about the rest of the year? If your group is large enough, you may want to establish a ways and means committee. Organizations that I've been involved with have done this with great success. A small group whose primary function is to create ways to generate funds for the club. One small group I was with generated over $10000 per year. The ideas are endless. Free radio ads, donated space from malls and local halls. Draws, book sales, indoor yard sales, BBQ's you name it. All that is required is motivated individuals within your club willing to volunteer some of their time. And if you are lucky enough to get sponsored, so much the better.

12/27/2008 10:41:06 AM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

I agree with Andy H but would like to say, you have to ask what you need the funding for? Where is all the money that is being generated going? If the majority of it is going in weigh-off prize money then it benefits a few club members only. Postage for seed promos costs, but subscription fees should easily cover that.

12/27/2008 11:16:23 AM

The current financial recession will impact all clubs. We have enough revenue for now but we all will need to rethink prize structures for 2009. I would prefer to offer more smaller prizes to spread the wealth around.

A kid who grows a 400 pounder with his dad isn't going to haul it 200 miles for a ribbon. But if he can nab $50 & a ribbon for a 10th place finish 20 miles from home then we might have a new grower. That kind of effort is probably worth making.

12/27/2008 12:07:05 PM

Auction sharing is very intriguing if the end justifies the means.

12/27/2008 12:32:04 PM

owen o

Knopp, Germany

when growing pumpkins stops being for fun, you can throw all the money you want at it, you will never bring the fun back.

12/27/2008 12:51:38 PM

giant pumpkin peep

Columbus,ohio

I know this might not work in many places. When I went to oakland park nearsury weigh-off, they made it like a holoween fair. The had things set up for kids,vendors of all kinds,and a radio person to hoast the event. I know this might not work some places. It worked in Columbus because it is a big city. I think people don't know there are weigh-offs. Anybody I ever talk to only knows about circleville pumpkin show. They have no idea about all the other weigh-offs. So bassicly my idea is to have a weigh-off with other things set up, and try to get the word out via anything affordable. If people know about it and know there is something to-do besides looking at HUGE pumpkins. Don't get me wrong, I love seeing the giants as much as any other grower ,but it isn't the most fun for other people who arn't bit with the pumpkin bug. It would also be a chance to recruit new growers. Just my 2 cents.

12/27/2008 1:15:24 PM

Captain Cold Weather

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

I remeber this fall when we went to longmont's weigh off. Alot of people didnt even know colorado had a club yet alone the GPC. One person told me that had our club not entered he would have won prize money.lol I know we got a lot of questions about the RMGVG's club and hope that we got some new members from the longmont weigh off.

I agree with pap. but 4 catagories.
newbies
2nd and 3rd yr growers
Growers with multi yrs experence but can't get a big one.
top 5 finishers.

I entered a best tomato/sugar test first place was 2,500. It wasn't fun people were mean it wasnt enjoyable due to the competitveness thats why I like growing pumpkins. Its fun

I do agree with tremor on having smaller prizes, gives the little guy something.

12/27/2008 2:51:33 PM

GROWING pumpkins will always be fun. It's organizing & financing successful weigh-offs that is so challenging. Our most substantial weigh-off contributors are often not successful growers presumably due to the time constraints. It isn't easy balancing family/life/career/pumpkins but somehow we always manage.

For new clubs getting started I think it is very important to not qualify success by prize money payouts. Let be happy to spend time with pumpkins, family & friends.

12/27/2008 3:11:04 PM

Ohio

What ever happened to sending your club 10 bucks to join and get a bubble full of Free seeds thats so full that the seems was busting open by the time it got to your mail box?? Or the plain and simple seed auction/raffle for your clubs weigh off, what ever you made thats what you paid out in prizes? Seems like every year its more and more about 'MONEY' and how much a club can make(WHATS THE LIMIT? IS THERE ONE?. How much money do you really need for a weigh off anyway? Back 3 or 4 years ago it wasn't like this was it? Its getting more and more competitive not with who can grow the biggest pumpkin but about who can make the biggest buck, and I have seen this starting to happen over the last few years or so, and for you older guys that been around, I know you know what Im talking about. Pumpkin growing never used to be like this with clubs, sell this, sell that, buy to win this and buy to win that. This is the way its headed and it doesn't look like its gonna get any cheaper to grow pumpkins anytime soon. I hate to say it, but I see a lot of friends becoming enemy's if we dont try to get this pumpkin growing back to the basics of how it was before.

12/27/2008 3:12:11 PM

Bohica (Tom)

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Brooks hit it on the head, I agree 100%.

12/27/2008 3:23:00 PM

PumpkinBrat

Paradise Mountain, New York

I was told that at the Oswego weigh-off next year there changing things around with the prize money. Many of the weigh-offs have thousands of dollars for first place. Every year there is a hand full of guys who win the big buck. Then you have the little guy who works very hard all year and goes home with nothing if he doesn't place in the top ten. I can see why some guys give up this great sport. It is a sport Right. What if the prizes were like this
1st 1,250
2ns 1,000
3rd 500
4th 500
5th 500
6th 400
7th 350
8th 350
9th 300
10th 300
11th-15 100

12/27/2008 3:29:56 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Brooks, brother I hear ya, but what's the answer. Maybe all the club execs can talk to each other and come to some kind of consensus. As soon as it stops being fun, I'm done.

12/27/2008 3:34:05 PM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

Yep Brooks said what I meant but much better than I put it.

12/27/2008 3:36:15 PM

sambo

Sparta, NC

I agree with Brooks.

12/27/2008 3:49:57 PM

Marty S.

Mt.Pleasant,Iowa

I raised $500 last year on our raffle for the Mt. Pleasant weigh-off here on BP.com and the top prize was $40 and everyone got something down to a ribbon and $5. Everyone had fun and really enjoyed getting something for there effort(most were kids). I had a guy come up and said if the money came from me and I said from my friends at BP.com and how everyone here really helped me out and care about everyones weigh-offs from small to large then he gave me $200 for next year. How cool is that! So the generosity shows in the kids and parents of the weigh-off and keeps me trying to keep it going. If I have to find a way to get the money myself I will try.

12/27/2008 3:59:03 PM

Throw in $2500 for a forklift, scale & insurance.
Postage not withstanding....

Brian's weigh-off now costs $8,450.00. Now can the club sell seeds without a guilt trip?

12/27/2008 4:07:12 PM

GEOD

North Smithfield, RI

I always grew for fun but also understand the cost of putting on a weigh-off. Maybe sometimes we try to get too big too fast. When the economy goes down only the strong survive. The winner always deserves the top prize and the also-rans also deserve a little recognition. just a few thoughts for us.

12/27/2008 4:20:29 PM

abbynormal

Johnston, R.I.

Brooks for President..........

12/27/2008 4:23:18 PM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

Throw in $2500 for a forklift, scale & insurance.
Postage not withstanding....

Brian's weigh-off now costs $8,450.00. Now can the club sell seeds without a guilt trip?

Well I guess the postage would be pretty high for a fork lift!

12/27/2008 4:25:12 PM

Captain Cold Weather

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

wow brooks good point.

I have entered contests where u slept at the garden a week before the competition just to make sure someone didnt vandalize it.(seriously) then the fair said no more big money, it lost most of its competitors, but they came back over a couple yrs. I heard that now its fun.

Last yr dad won a bag of fertilizer from the Colorado Springs weigh off,(Acctually everybody got a bag that enterred a pumpkin) but he was happy to get 8th place ribbon and a bag of fertilizer. I know its expensive but it felt good getting a prize.

but brooks said it better than i can.

12/27/2008 4:28:13 PM

Ohio

yours scales made of gold also Tremor?

12/27/2008 4:30:06 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

12/27/2008 4:49:15 PM

Andy W

Western NY

Brooks, here's my take on how/why things have changed --

It seemed a few years ago when the weights really started to jump, there was the thought that a 1200 pound pumpkin that got 6th (or 11th?) place should be awarded more than the $50 that their pumpkin was awarded. After all, it was just a few years before that where you could easily win top prize with that weight.

And once one site ups the ante, it's a chain reaction with the others. After all, each site wants to put on the greatest pumpkin show ever. And most growers with more than one pumpkin watch the money, be it prizes or the gas cost to go to the show.

I'm not too pessimistic about the future of pumpkin growing. The money issue has been around longer than i've been at it competitively. I would wager that as a ratio of the serious growers out there, the overall money has stayed very similar to what it was more than 10 years ago.

12/27/2008 5:06:10 PM

Brooks and I have communicated at length about this "problem". The weigh offs do cost money to run, but where is the line drawn?

12/27/2008 5:47:37 PM

Lets take a look at the club I run a website for, the PGPGA. The prize structure is still the same, one thousand for first on down. Donations of time from Sams Club workers running their forklifts, scales companies working with the weigh offs and a great bunch of folks helping the club make it on a limited budget. We do an auction every year, but that is basically it. Membership is the same now as it was 5 years ago, still send out a nice seed distribution, and give the members a newsletter that has decent pumpkin information. Good club, great people.

Next I joined Ron and Dicks club. 2 years ago it wasnt as money driven as it is now. Progress takes money, time, and effort. I fully understand the need for more funds, but sometimes I wonder if the need to raise 15 grand from a promo, have a seed auction, and also have great sponsorship is needed. The OAF is a wonderful cause and through the best newsletter of any pumpkin group out there, the Wallaces, Connollys, and Jutras (RI mafia) have found ways to reach outside their own group. Question here is how much is too much?

The NYSGPGA which I now belong to raises funds for 5 different weigh offs, so the need for funds here is crucial. The Cooperstown weigh off has wonderful local sponsorship through the chamber of commerce, Bradley Farms shares the prize money structure with the NYSGPGA, and same goes for Oswego, Pumpkinville, and the other one (cant think of it right now).

In a nutshell, Brooks was the one that wasnt afraid to say it and I second it. Dick brought up the point of combining weigh off fundraisers, which right now the only group going that does that is the NYSGPGA with 5 in one. The PGPGA has stayed low budget with quality results. Money hasnt changed things yet they still have had 2 world records in the past 9 years.

This is a great thread, with pros and cons.

12/27/2008 5:47:46 PM

Brooks, Can you rent a forklift, a scale & buy site insurance for less? I'm all ears.

12/27/2008 5:48:13 PM

One more thing the New York group is talking about is redistribution of prize monies down the line of finish. This year was 4 grand for first, yet 10th place, which could have been a 1200 pounder (wasnt this year) only got 50 bucks. Spreading the money across the top ten is a much better idea to take care of the people who have grown monsters as described above and get little to show for it. Cut first in half and Obama (redistrbute) it across 3rd down to 10th. I love that idea.

12/27/2008 5:50:59 PM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

Our small group isn't trying to re-invent the wheel, just following other models already being used by other clubs. I'll say again- what's the answer?

PS- my $10000 example a few posts up was only for illustration purposes, our group wouldn't need anything close to that.

The answer in my eyes Andy, is cap the prize money, it might not go down well with a few growers. but at the end of the day why do they grow?

12/27/2008 5:52:37 PM

Ohio

Tremor I can BUY a scale and get a forklift use for free, So what ever insurance is Id bet it would be just a tad under 8400.00

12/27/2008 6:03:19 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

Weighoffs aren't cheap (organizing and running). Neither is getting a club going. All the 'support' stuff that goes with growing these things. On top of that is prize money.

We love growing but, it also takes a lot more than that. Little things add up-fast. Cut the corners where you can. And diversify; no all eggs in one basket. Especially financing.

I'm on year two of a *minimum* ten year "project"... to get growing to happen here, not just pumpkins; to get a club sustaining itself; to have one weighoff every year; and get at least one festival launched surrounding that weighoff. This is a small town, a rural town, we could really use this, especially our county fair.

A lot of good points made in this thread... and. There is no one answer and no single template or solution to fit all. We can all learn new tricks how to 'do it better' outside the patch as well.....

12/27/2008 7:46:36 PM

I've borrowed forklifts before too Brooks. However I've since given up my CDL & no one else was capable of securing favors quite like that. Our own forklift is way too big for a non-semi truck.

12/27/2008 9:19:08 PM

Gold Hill, Oregon

wow!!! sponsorship through the chamber of commerce thats something. they probably have free flyers all over the county or maybe state. i would like to see more pumpkin patch tours. i would be willing to drive to eugene (150 miles) pay $25.00 to go see thads growing place and have an oppurtunity to bs (sorry talk)with him and maybe drink a couple of pumpkin beers with him and the rest of the growers on the tour. i'm looking forward to next years tour. only happens once a year here. i would be willing to do this maybe 4 times a year this way i could kinda see what whats going on throughout the year. i realize that smaller clubs have small funds to work with and larger clubs have more funds to work with and everything keeps going up in cost. i would have been just as happy with a bag of fertilizer and the 10th place ribbon. don't get me wrong the $100.00 was nice i did copy the check and frame it. but it was here and gone the ribbon will last a lifetime. everyone who got less than 10th place here didn't receive a ribbon. anyone ever think about giving an award for the biggest damaged fruit. we had a lady with, i think a 972# and didn't get anything. kinda breaks my heart to see that someone grows a bigg'un and not get a ribbon for their effort. i have to give a big thank you to thad for telling me about this website or i would be still buying seeds from howard dill wouldn't have joined any clubs or bid in any auctions. thank you thad thank you everone. just my .00002 cents.

12/28/2008 12:13:57 AM

Phil H.

Cameron,ontario Team Lunatic

We here at the GVGO try to focus on the growers, more than the weigh offs. Our weigh offs are run by their local communities & therefore pay for most everything. We sponsor them with a big enough donation each year to either pay their GPC fees each year or use the money for prizes. After that, all moneies go to support the members with 3 great newsletters per year, a great seed pack for free, in-club awards & contests, free patch tours, free grower's seminars & more. Remember, it's about the growers in your club & not about who raises the most money.

Just think all those great benefits listed above for only $25 per year & a pack of over 25 of the best GVGO seeds are included in the price.

12/28/2008 7:42:16 AM

Commack, NY

I defer to Brook's comment, with one small change, what ever happened to being a member of a club and getting a bunch of UNPROVEN seeds, grown in the current year, from the club for free??? Seems that something like that would certainly build a boat of load of good will at the very least. Things have changed quite a bit in the last few years that's for sure. There's been alot of capitalizing for just about anything. I bet a certain DVD on the home page would be selling for a whole lot more than $18 bucks had a measuring malfunction not taken place. What's next? "buy a vial of blood that came out of (insert name of east coast heavy hitter here) when they cut themselves pruning the plant that grew their XXXX".
Our weighoff doesnt have a club. The Nursery that hosts our contest very generously puts up the prize money. Its alot less than what most weighoffs pay, but to tell you the truth, i would go there even if they just awarded a ribbon and nothing else.

12/28/2008 9:01:44 AM

BCBen

Darfield, British Columbia, Canada

Many areas, including mine, have fall fairs, exebitions and so on. All do do with growing and showing plants and animals and several other things. Many of these events have easy access to skid steers or forklifts and scales to weight pumkins and more. If the weigh offs tryed to pair up with these events then the cost would be greatly reduced and there will be more exposure to more people for this great sport. Just my two cents.

12/28/2008 11:27:49 AM

ghoomis

Ma.

Scott, The N.E.G.P.G.A. continues to give away good unproven seed generously donated by our members to any individual wishing to join the NEGPGA by March 1st. Dues are $20.00. Dues must be received by Woody Lancaster, 22 Summer St. Topsfield, MA 01983. by March 1,2009. In addition to the seed give away you will also receive all club benefits. The focus of the NEGPGA has always been the promotion of the sport, and the support and mentoring of new and long time growers. HAPPY NEW YEAR AND GREAT GROWING IN 2009!

12/28/2008 11:57:55 AM

Scott said: "I defer to Brook's comment, with one small change, what ever happened to being a member of a club and getting a bunch of UNPROVEN seeds, grown in the current year, from the club for free??? Seems that something like that would certainly build a boat of load of good will at the very least......."

Our CT club no longer sells "memberships" however anyone who shows at our weigh-off still enjoys "member privileges". In the past this has included club seed exchanges where by our 'members" submit their current seeds & allied clubs reciprocate. This has proven popular however it will be some time before these seed stocks prove their mettle (or not).

The average newb can build a handsome seed collection with inter-club transfers. However one has to be in the club to participate. Perhaps our not selling general memberships needs to be revisited. I know that SNEGPG does very well with their memberships.

12/28/2008 12:19:24 PM

giant pumpkin peep

Columbus,ohio

The idea of giving growing supplies for a prize is a good one. Some or most of that prize money will go into next years patch. If someone is growing pumpkins for prize money there is an issue. I think most don't.

12/28/2008 12:20:41 PM

Regradless, seed swaps & membership costs still won't finance a $6-8000 weigh-off.

12/28/2008 12:22:18 PM

Commack, NY

Alot of what i have read/heard has been quite different, with clubs charging for memberships, and you need to be a member to then BUY seeds. im glad to read that clubs are still giving away seeds, i think that's a great thing, and certainly worth being a part of.
I think you can do a weighoff for under 6-8k, it just depends on what you do. Our weighoff is at an established nursery. They already own a certified scale, and forklifts. Prize money totals $1,000, which is 100% dontated by the Nursery, along with the help to load/unload fruit, and operate the forklifts. I realize this is not doable for every site, and im not factoring in man hours for the guys doing the work, but we're not even close to that figure.

12/28/2008 12:49:02 PM

Rhode Island

very interesting commentary.

i for one look at running a pumpkin organization in the same manner you would run a business. in the black.if you start the new year scratching your head wondering where you will get any financing to keep your club afloat? you already lost.it takes a lot to put a competitive weigh-off together.if you want to be the best you gotta beat the best.
the sngpg did not get to where it is today by just selling products. we sell primium products ,products that are or will be in demand in the years to come.
oh ya, the money we raise from seed promos and auctions? go right back every year to the growers at our weigh-offs in the form of free gifts and prize money.
we also give out hundreds of dollars yearly in free halloween gifts to kids just before the start of our weigh-off.
anyone remember every contestant taking a spin on pap and joe big wheel two years ago? ( some won as much as $100.00 in cash and prizes ) we gave out in excess of $1.000.00. how bout those nice free printed sweat shirts every contestant got last year ----anyone else do that?
this year we intend on having a free contest for members only as well.
so please dont anyone complain to me about how much money certain clubs raise or who sells seeds and who gives them away. theres a reason they are free.

we have built the club with honor and respect with regard to all our members, supplied them with the best learning newsletters around and also furnished many with personal consultation regarding soils ,growing tips,etc.
the good reputation the sngpg has built these last five years, including our members only supported seed promo ? did not happen by accident.

ill leave those who complained about clubs raising excessive prize monies with this. there are two weigh-offs both within twenty five miles of your home. one offers a generous prize listing while the other gives out free coupons for the local dairy queen. which one are ya gonna attend ?

pap

12/28/2008 12:52:52 PM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

I have to say Dick the only one complaining seems to be you, and as you broached the subject you almost have to accept the consequences of it.

12/28/2008 3:12:57 PM

Rhode Island

whos broaching ? im stating my opinion as have others. we dont break anyones arm to join our club or buy our products.
our products sell themselves.

12/28/2008 3:31:59 PM

I support Dick on this subject. He is certainly NOT the only one complaining Phil. Indeed the only folks complaining on this thread have never actually run a successful weigh-off (that I'm aware).

12/28/2008 3:44:12 PM

Marvin11

pap good points.

12/28/2008 4:23:38 PM

Ohio

What do you consider a successful weigh off Tremor?

12/28/2008 4:36:56 PM

Ohio

and not meaning that in a smart way.

12/28/2008 4:44:42 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

About the upstream post of the poor lady with the DMG fruit... we'd give her a Certificate of Merit, which acknowledges her hard work to get one to the scale. We did give one out this year, the one that got it is VERY PROUD of it even if it wasn't a ribbon.

I'd love to have more handouts and I want money on the first 10, rosettes for other things, kids gifts, etc... that does take raising funds.

We had success in that we got sponsors, prize money, and entrants. Bigger and better to come.

It has to be a business, true, else you have to be a lotto winner. Just don't ovespend yourself either. Add it if you can if not run with what you can manage.

Club membership should count for something... some do free promos, some do pay for promos, it's up to the club. Each club has to figure out what they do and how they do it. Being part of a club, membership should be worth joining but it may be different benefits at different ones...

I thank Pap for bringing it all up.

12/28/2008 4:57:53 PM

Pumpkin Picker (Orange Only)

Ohio

I know it cost money to run a weigh off, Im not denying or against that at all , all Im saying is that times have changed ALOT, you cant go online anymore with out someone trying to make money for something to support their group, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT!. But cant we still try to keep some things like they used to be? dont you guys agree things are getting out of hand?,, no??,,, yes??? Must we make money off of everything under the sun related to pumpkin growing? Hell, I seen new growers ask questions on the boards here and you know they answer they get? ''Buy this product and it will answer the question your asking''. Dayum! Cant we just answer this guys simple question with out trying to make a buck off him first?
All Im trying to say is that I dont like the way pumpkin growing is headed in the future.

12/28/2008 5:08:15 PM

Western PA

I am pretty new to the game, but I definitely agree with Brooks on this subject!!

Why does it have to be about the Money???

AG Growers are not growing pumpkins to make money, no new grower starts growing to make a profit, we grow giant pumpkins because we love to!!! In my opinion the top place prize payoffs need to be cut drastically! The main thing that are making clubs try to sell anything they can get there hands on is to keep increasing the prize money payoffs.... If the clubs were to cut the top few payouts for a weigh-off that would take a humongous strain off there budget!

I grow strictly for FUN, I don't want any compensation for it, when I go to a weigh-off, I would definitely enjoy being recognized for my achievements, but money is not necessary! Just give me a ribbon or plaque and you'll see a smile on my face!!

12/28/2008 5:56:51 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Maybe we should put this one to bed guys. I hear there's an auction tonight.

12/28/2008 6:37:49 PM

Big Kahuna 26

Ontario, Canada.

Pumpkin grower clubs and weigh off events have become larger commercial ventures in recent times. As the sport continues to mature this effect will grow and grow. Progress for good or bad is progress. For those who want it to regress to nostalgic milder times I believe the clock is ticking. You have only to read the mission statements of clubs to understand were the sport is going.

We are not even remotely close to saturation of the market place. The hobby will continue to grow and expand to new heights and weights.

12/28/2008 7:51:08 PM

An international community is a great thing with bigpumpkins.com. The one draw back isjust when you think you are top nut, someone out does you. That used to pertain to weights, but as this post shows, it is also about as pap said, which contest ya gonna attend, the coupon one or the big buck one? Good point pap. I guess this thing has evolved from the original post of combining weigh offs fund raisers to why so much for one group, but not as much for the others.

With the BP community, you may have never known about what the Rhode Island people make or what they do with it. You may have thought your weigh off was top dog when it came to weigh offs. Problem is, we "do" know how people get money, how much they raise, etc. Eventually one group will rise up and be the NFL/NBA/etc of pumpkin growing and the rest will continue as small dogs in the kennel.

I agree with Brooks, but can also see groups with big ideas and top fund raisers wanting top draw and attention.

12/28/2008 8:22:39 PM

TruckTech1471

South Bloomfield, Ohio

I applaud pap and others in his group as well as other groups for their tireless promotion of this hobby. I also understand Brooks' concerns as to where the hobby is headed.

I took up growing giant pumpkins for several reasons, not the least of which is to win the Circleville Pumpkin Show weigh-off. Little did I know six years ago that there were other weigh-offs besides Circleville and Half Moon Bay. It wasn't until I logged on to BP.com that I realized how global a pursuit this really is.

It isn't about money to me(unless it refers to what I spend at this hobby).......it's about local bragging rights and what I get out of it from an intrinsic standpoint.

I've been divorced now for over ten years and NEED a hobby to keep me out of trouble. I have no desire to remarry and growing AG's is the perfect way for me to feed the need to be outdoors and focus on something other than the normal daily routine of work. And I can't even begin to express the fun I've had from making new friends in this community.

Every year is different. The winter cross planning, material patch needs, soil samples, and the learning. The annual heartache which befalls every one of us is even welcome from a learning point of view.

I remember three years ago when Dr. Bob had nothing to weigh at the Pumpkin Show. All of his pumpkins had suffered rot. Dr. Bob always saves his largest pumpkins for that show because it's his home town and he really wants to bring the world record home where it belongs......to Circleville. The following year, he weighed in a new state record there. It was one of the proudest moments I've ever witnessed.....both for him AND for me.

I guess to sum it all up, forget the money. Have fun and glean from the hobby all it has to offer.

12/28/2008 8:38:07 PM

s.krug

Iowa

So should we combined groups, spread the wealth to sort of speak??? Maybe the pres. elect could help pap?? Or should we complain about some that work hard to make there group the best that it can be?? Last time I checked I could enter at any weigh in,, anywhere and no one has broken my arm to get money out of me.. I agree general discussion should be just that, not a place to plug things!! Maybe Ken should charge for advertising, get his cut!! "Things are getting out of hand" yes but not to the piont that a little common sense would not cure.

12/28/2008 10:39:51 PM

Boise City, Oklahoma, USA

Let each club that runs a weighoff follow the GPC rules, but do as they want within those guidelines. I doubt Cimarron County Free Fair will ever have us putting up a $10k first prize for a pumpkin. However, we're growing because we want to, it's nice to have a venue, and prizes do help with the water bills and stuff like that...

A bucket of bragging rights still works here, the rest is even better but. A lot of us *are* in this to grow. Let's not lose sight of that.

And yes, y'all are invited to come here if you want to, we accept all comers. Prizes? I won't know until I get there what they'll be for 2009.

Seed auctions are popular, and a lot do donate to, and come out to buy; and I won't knock it one bit. I hope we can do it too next winter. Sigh. It may seem like more than ever and still climbing, but look at how many more are growing since even... five years ago.

A lot of work goes into a weighoff even if it's a platform scale, a forklift, five entries, and $100 first. It's a lot more by scale for 200 entries and $5k first, but. Still takes a lot of the same things. Glad that some places are 'top dog' and can offer a top dollar; amen.

As long as there's someone willing to grow, and someone else willing to go the work to put on a weighoff, we'll still be growing and spreading the word about the sport.

It's easier for us through things like the BP site to get out the word to our like-mindeds... and fundraise all winter. I have that in the mundane life, all the church groups, school groups, and clubs. Just on here they're all similarly themed. No you don't have to, but if you want to, feel free to (donate to whatever cause)

I do hope it remains fun of growing, kindhearted seed sharing for a bubble, handouts by clubs, and the brother (and sister)hood of growing because we want to.

Still stands... money helps, fundraising is part of it, and diversify!

12/28/2008 11:25:30 PM

Brooks,

We live in different worlds even if we do have similar goals & values.

IMO a successful weigh-off keeps the club in the black without making too much money for carry over. Everyone should have fun. Kids should laugh with their silly parents. Exhibitors should always WANT to come back. This has always proven to be our case since we see the same folks year after year & the newbs also seem to enjoy themselves. Many newbs have mentors who help them along.

Besides having fun, everyone is required to refrain from bleeding or herniating discs. We have Millions in insurance. But we try not to use it.

This year we had a new commercial sponsor who did provide the forklift, labor, security, some food & facility but stipulated a new payout:

1st place Pumpkin............$2500..........Squash $500
2nd place Pumpkin............$1000..........Squash $400
3rd place Pumpkin............$500...........Squash $300
Pettiest Pumpkin HDA.........$150

This cost our club an extra $1000 beyond the usual $3000+/-in prizes. The sponsor picked up a portion of the prizes.

I personally found this prize schedule to be excessive. I'd rather have seen more places paid but the first place winner wasn't complaining.

continued

12/29/2008 2:31:10 AM

There are many other non-weigh-off things we've engaged in over the years too. I teach & grow for the K-4th grades in our school system. Education is key to our 501 3(c) tax exempt status. We've not yet been able to ally with the local garden clubs but there is time for that.

Now here's where our demographics really differ:

Land is running between $1-12 million an acre so I don't ever expect to see our CT Gold Coast expenses going down very much. Salaries & taxes are absolutely mind boggling if the real estate doesn't crush us.

On the rare occasion a farm goes up for sale it'll go to contract without ever being listed. Even if Richard Gere & Glen Close don't buy it for a new polo farm; residential home builders & golf course architects will be all over it.

We're promoting a blue collar hobby in the land of the blue bloods. One of my landscaper customers drives to upstate NY every summer to buy a giant pumpkin. His men set it among the diseased plants in the yard of a well known heiress' mansion. She enters it at a Greenwich garden center weigh-off & wins every year. Of course they want me to help her grow a winner but I won't. She'd probably take the thing to our weigh-off & I'd have to DQ her. LOL

The owner of Jet magazine wants the pumpkins too. Actually the list is endless but like you, I'm more into the fun & science of growing than the potential commercial value.

It's the camaraderie & friendships not the money

12/29/2008 2:31:19 AM

Ohio

fair enough Tremor

12/29/2008 3:59:04 AM

Tom B

Indiana

I am for the most part going to stay out of this debate...nobody even wants to get me going...LOL

Tremor stated the following

"Regradless, seed swaps & membership costs still won't finance a $6-8000 weigh-off."

The SNGPG charges what? $20 for membership?

100 seed lots at $150 each? plus you have to be a member? I dont know if anyone has done the math but 100 members and a sell out produces $17,000.

I am a strong believer that if you dont like it dont buy it. The SNGPG seems to have no problem selling all 100 lots. Which must mean that demand still outstrips supply.

Tom

12/29/2008 10:45:10 AM

Well put Tom.. Great post, nice to get everyones views and understandings out in the open. If this post offended some, then they are not reading it correctly. It is meant to see how each side is doing things and comeup with your own ideas and such.

Happy New Year to all!

12/29/2008 1:07:12 PM

Chris S.

I'm late with replying, but I also feel what Brooks is saying. $17,000 to the SNGPG holy cow! Yup we jumped on the auction bandwagon this year. Why?? To try to compete with the other "local" prize structures. It's becoming a rich man's sport not only trying to compete in the patch, but also to compete with other events.

I don't think what the RI guys do is bad. Look at what they have done for the hobby, and they are a very generous bunch. The big $$ aspect does make it very difficult for others to compete in the patch and the weigh-offs.

12/29/2008 4:49:43 PM

Rhode Island

im sure tom likes the promo cause he and his dad each bought one this year. they buy one every year. so to our loyal supporters (members).which is what its intended for.
we thank you.

you must remember theres a reason why our members will pay $150.00 for a bunch of seeds. there are certain seeds in there that after next season will be worth more than the price of the promo.

once one seed hits it big and goes into demand at auctions ,etc, the true promo value kicks in.

remember the sngpg promos of years past? the 1502 was in packages two years in a row . the 1385 jutras was in every package last year. ( pluds many other highly sought after seeds each year)

whats a 1385 going for at auction this year $200. to $300.00 or better?

12/30/2008 4:23:55 PM

Tom B

Indiana

Last year's pack was a FANTASTIC investment! That is puting it lightly.....

12/30/2008 5:01:28 PM

Commack, NY

seeds as an investment......this is really taking things to a new level

12/30/2008 8:54:32 PM

One of our club members has been making speculative seed investments for years. Remember when P&P had 845 Bobiers for $10?

We've all attempted to emulate his successes. Our club spends money with other club's seed sales even now with the intent to auction the investment at profit. Unless we learn to grow like RI, we instead learned to invest like Charles Schwab.

12/30/2008 11:19:59 PM

Rhode Island

hey scott. i dont usually fire back in a negative way but your remarks on bp always seem to be in a negative tone.

have you ever had a good word about anything? do you suffer from a lack of attention? or are you just a wimper in the dark.

have you ever had an original thought to improve the hobby or help its growers?

i guess you wont be sending me any seed requests this year lol

pap

12/31/2008 6:06:34 AM

Big Kahuna 26

Ontario, Canada.

Its funny I thought I was the only one that had figured out that investment in seeds was a good thing. Steve do you have to talk so loud. I was hoping to sneek a few more bubbles out there before anyone realized. Truth is I end up donating at least 75% of my best seeds to clubs and the convention auctions anyways. So they are always going to a good cause.

I eagerly hopped on the paps venture band wagon. They capitalized on a great venture and showed how to make an original buck. It was a fantastic way to raise funds. And then he turned around and started OAF to boot.

Say what you want it doesn't change the fact that success brings with it the envy of those around you. Strive to be better and you will be. Complain for sake of complaining and you will be relagated to also ran status for ever.

12/31/2008 9:20:54 AM

iceman

Every since the first day I found BP, and read the posts, I have always thought of the seeds as an investment. Not only for personal, but for Giant Pumpkins as a whole. I've purchased several first year seeds at next to nothing, and seen them hit $300.00 each in a year, As far as the future investments, It may not be needed but I have many doubles of prime seeds going back to 1997, to the present, and they will be an investment into the future, Every fall I take 2 of the "hot" seeds and put them in the don't touch container in the freezer, In 10 years from now, we may need a 935, 723, 1068 or a 801 Stelts.
If we don't class seeds as an investment then our hobby is on a mission of self distruct.

12/31/2008 1:07:39 PM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

Happy New Year everyone !

12/31/2008 2:32:21 PM

Ohio

Eddy, come on now bud!! Ive seen you GIVE away more of those investment seeds then you have grown. I know just from being around you over the years that your more happier making other growers happy just to see them grow that once in a life time seed. Your investment in this hobby is making sure growers are happy, so you saying you buy seed for a investment is bull ,,crap,,lol

12/31/2008 3:14:51 PM

iceman

Lol Brooks, Careful, because I would think the 1068 would be a hot seed, and I may need you to grow it,
But the statement is true, and if you wish, come up here and I'll show you.
And a smile is a great investment

12/31/2008 8:18:28 PM

ArvadaBoy

Midway, UT

I can confirm Brooks words Iceman. Had a a great time with you at your patch last week in the -15 weather. Eddy is a perfect example of what I think the sport is about. Invest in seeds, invest in your hobby and invest in the people around you. It all comes back to you in some way. I've seen Eddy and other growers do all of that and more in my short time in this sport and it is a big part of why I enjoy it so much.

1/1/2009 1:44:41 AM

Gold Hill, Oregon

i can see your point as to why you don't want to sell cd's or dvd's, like i suggested, that is what this website is for. to teach, help, mentor and to pass on the sport of ag growing. i am very grateful for the all of the help and support that i recieve here from everyone. if it wasn't for you guys and girls i would still be using miracle grow. now i can look forward to trying some of your growing techniques. i have learned a a lot these last couple of months and look forward to learning more in the new year and years to come. pap i did forget to metion that i did get a tee shirt when i signed up for the wheigh off, which i'm proud to wear. thank you everyone and have a happy new year.

p.s. eddy is a giving guy. thanks again for that 845, eddy.

1/1/2009 7:46:38 AM

Commack, NY

Hey pap, you want to tear into me, go for it.

I have plenty to say that's good, but dont feel the need to post "i agree" all the time. Apparently a large percentage of the people in here cant seem to get there lips off of your ass and have an opinion that is different from yours....well im not one of those people.

I have said on more than one occasion that what your group has done has been nothing short of genious, but honestly, i think it has gone a little to far in some instances.

As far as seeds are concerned, i remember someone who sent you and ron an 887 orr......and got NOTHING in return for it. Not even unproven crosses from 2007 even AFTER i had sent you mine and AFTER we have been exchanging seeds since i started back in '98.

so no,i wont be sending you seeds this year.

This investment thing has got me thinking, i have a 1068 wallace, maybe i should cash in on this new found "investment".

1/1/2009 8:11:22 AM

Big Kahuna 26

Ontario, Canada.

Wow those comments are really offside Scott what gives?
You just managed to insult me and everyone here! WTF relax man.

1/1/2009 12:28:38 PM

vancouver

Vancouver Washington

Well...at this point, I'm not sure anyone is even going to read much more of this thread, but here is my take on it. Pumpkin growing has had a tremendous amount of growth in the last decade, both in terms of the actual size of the fruit and the number of people attracted to growing/participating/witnessing/sponsering...etc.. etc...

Along with this - there has been a reasonably stable stock market, economy, consumer confidence level...etc.. etc.. etc..

Up until now...

I don't think that what happened with the economy is too different that what we are going to witness with pumpkin growing and pumpkin contests.

At one point, i witnessed a 1068 get auctioned for over 700 dollars. I'm sure there were some seeds sold for even more. Is the seed worth that? I think the answer is pretty complicated. If i have plenty of disposable cash and i want to support a club or just really want to grow that seed....sure.

My guess is that those days are gone for awhile. Ask anyone selling luxury items- like artwork, or diamonds.

Also, I think that as a community of interested growers we have reached a plateau for awhile. Contrary to popular belief....lol... There are not infinite numbers of people with bottomless levels of enthusiasm - just waiting to work in the dirt (mostly alone) all summer, to raise a big vegeteble.

1/1/2009 6:34:22 PM

vancouver

Vancouver Washington

Just like all other things - that involve money. It is going to get a bunch more competitive to try to make a buck. Both for clubs and for individuals. Harder to raise money for clubs, and harder to win money for growers. Personally, I don't think there is such a thing as the good old days. At least not in my life. Things just are - and the past always seems nostalgic if you survive it.

People are growing giant pumpkins for a variety of reasons. Some for the love of growing, some for competition, some for recognition, some for friendship and yes.....some for money. I do it for all those reasons and they change and move up and down the priority scale depending on my coffee and sugar intake.
I think Pap is right about the fact that the more creative you are - and the more you involve and excite all growers at all levels the better your club will do. I think Scott is right that things have maxxed out and have been overvalued. Seeds as an investment are like the stock market. The problem with seeds is that they have a self life. They are only good until the next great seed comes along. So it is a lot like day trading. If the market is full of money day traders make tons of cash, but in a poor economy...in my opinion, they aren't worth as much.

Lastly, with the large increase in growers and knowledge, more and more seeds become proven and the access has gotten easier and easier----again lowering the values of seeds. Personally, i don't believe seed sales will have much to do with the future of successful clubs or contests. Yes, they will always hold some value, but I think seeds as an avenue for fund raising has seen it's best days.

1/1/2009 6:34:49 PM

vancouver

Vancouver Washington

I think the only true resource that one can count on for the future is getting people interested. Creating interest in a demographic that can afford to support the contests - or not caring about the contests and growing just to witness the miracle. I think this happens by building relationships and by being a steward, advocate, and salesperson for the art form we know as giant pumpkins. words words words...

1/1/2009 6:35:05 PM

UnkaDan

vancouver, I've followed this post from day one, your insight and comments are well written and thought out.

1/1/2009 6:58:53 PM