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Cornelius, Oregon

Here is one for the old timers..
What has been or is the greatest seed of all time? Kinda like comparing hall of fame football players with todays players. What seed did the most to advance our hobby/sport...The 723, 567, 898, or a new one? I am curious to see what everyone thinks...
My vote would be the 723.

11/25/2008 4:07:03 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

I would have to agree as didnt the 723 lead to the recreate of the 845, then came the 898 marriage ?? Then POW!

11/25/2008 4:14:11 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

567

11/25/2008 5:08:17 PM

Marshfield, Ma, USA

935 Lloyd

11/25/2008 6:18:14 PM

Colorado

I think the 567.5,935,723 made for the foundation of todays pumpkins and the 898 knauss added a little nitro-methane to the sport.I'd say the 898

11/25/2008 7:09:22 PM

Upstate S.C.

1068

11/25/2008 7:20:41 PM

Dallas, Oregon

723 for sure.

11/25/2008 8:26:46 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Good question Brett.

723, 845, 846, and 898 all come to mind. If I had to choose one, I'd pick the 898.

I look for the need for these seeds once again to be crossed into the powerhouses of today. I'm hanging on to my 1367 Rose and 808.5 Gibson(712 Kuhn x 846 Calai).

11/25/2008 8:29:53 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

It's hard to compare genetics of the past, with those of the present. It seems the 567 and 935 were the hot seeds of their time. Without them we wouldn't have many of the great genetics we have today.
I'll vote for the 1068 Wallace. Last I looked, it's the number one rated seed on the AGGC. The 898 seems to bring something special on the pollinator side in some cases...especially the 1068 Wallace and 985 Werner come to mind.
Many of the hot seeds of today have a good dose of 1068 Wallace genetics in them.

11/25/2008 9:09:04 PM

[email protected]

The 1068 has surpassed the 723 in terms of raw statistics.

11/25/2008 11:27:16 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

But the 1068 is what... 845 x 723? (OK, I don't actually know, but isn't it something like that?)

It becomes a difficult argument... if the 1068 was the best statistically, doesn't that elevate the status of the 845 and 723 all that much more?

It's kind of like the argument, what does MVP really mean? (For those out of the USA, "most valuable player" is an award given out in most american sports, and there is a constant debate of the true meaning of MVP. Is it the best player, the best player on the best team, or the one whom, in his absence, the team would fall apart?) It's hard to settle on the true judgement criteria.

If you look at all-time "foundational", "sea-change", seeds that changed the direction of the sport forever, then I think you look at 567.5, 935, and 898. The 935 and 567.5 seeds gave rise to 723, 845, and 846.

And then if it's just pure weight, then 1068 is the one. This is somewhat skewed by how well the seed was promoted and distributed, of course. But that's all part of the game.

11/26/2008 12:22:12 AM

Rhode Island

the greatest seed of all time? without question its rons 1068 wallace seed.
as a pure performance seed , one that has produced more big pumpkins than any other ever on this planet.
when you talk giant results for so many who planted it?
a number one producer of big pumpkins? only one answer.
pap

11/26/2008 5:22:05 AM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

The question is somewhat subjective I think. All of the seeds that were mentioned deserve to be on the short list. My own choice would be the 935 Lloyd. Without it there would be no 723, 845 or 1068. The 1068 is the greatest seed like Hank Aaron was the greatest baseball player ( I don't recognize Barry Bonds). Maybe Pete Rose was the greatest player because he got more hits than anyone else.

Back then who else had the vision to cross their own seed the way George Lloyd did until finally arriving at the 935.
Kinda makes me curious where Joe Jutras is going with his 1507. Just my 2 cents.

11/26/2008 7:18:46 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

Great Posting here....

11/26/2008 8:40:31 AM

Western PA

I am no old pro by any means but I can't help but notice when I look at the GPC pumpkin stats for the past couple years I see an awful lot of 998 pukos seeds that have gown some pretty big pumpkins.

This is definitely not an old time seed that advanced the hobby, but seems to be one of the key modern seeds that will be looked back on in maybee 10 years as a power seed genetic strain.

Does anybody have a list compiled of the top producing seeds for there era: When you think about it that would be hard data to compare because prior to the internet, the older seeds received a whole lot less exposure then the seeds of current times.

Lastly, does anybody know what seed holds the title for the most fruits over 1000lbs?

Erik

11/26/2008 11:23:24 AM

Western PA

I did some quick research and found the 998 pukos seed produced quite a few 1000+ Ags

NOTE: I looked through the data really quickly, these numbers could be + or - 1

14 in 2008

16 in 2007 1st place world record

1 in 2006 3rd place overall

Just from looking at the data it looks like the 3rd place overall pumpkin in 06 on the pukos seed is what sparked the 998 pukos seed popularity.

MY question is how many great seeds are sitting out there in basement that are not seeing the dirt because they never had there 3rd place overall finish?

You have to have good seed genetics, but i think the great growers are what makes the great seeds. If you were to pick a non popular seed with good genetics and give it to the top 20 growers to grow I bet that seed would produce a bunch of great pumpkins and become a great seed line.

Alright, I was way to board today, and spent way to much time on the bp site.

11/26/2008 11:58:55 AM

Nova Scotia

998 Pukos grew 1689 World Record, case closed. And 575 Dill '88 grew 827 Holland '92 and is also the grandmother to 567 Mombert. Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!
Danny

11/26/2008 2:44:49 PM

1068 wallace hands down.

Martin

11/26/2008 3:22:24 PM

Long Island,New York

well, you can argue the chicken vs the egg all day long on the 935 vs 723/845.....I would argue the 845 is more significant than the 723 due to its association with more significant fruit. If you follow Danny's line then the 935 is more significant since it grew TWO world records (1131 and 1092) AND the 723/845.(the 845 grew two WRs and the #1 seed of all time= 1068, the 723 grew a seed that grew the WR 1469) But then again if growing a world record makes a seed the most significant then the 940Mombert98 was the most significant seed ever in 2001 and thats just not true. So>>>935Lloyd it is and 845 as a product of the 935 is the proof.........G

11/26/2008 3:53:17 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Pumpkin Picker makes a good point with the 998 Pukos. If Quinn Werner didn't grow it to 1446 lbs., it may have never got hot. Same thing with the 1161 Rodonis...Mr. Werner grew a 1500+ lber. off it this year, now it looks like a very good seed. Just think of how many seeds out there could grow a 1400+ lb. pumpkin, if only Mr. Werner gave them a shot. Or maybe Quinn just knows how to pick them.

11/26/2008 6:07:59 PM

British Columbia, Canada

567

11/26/2008 6:23:44 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Quinn also knows how to grow 'em. There are way too many crosses out there with the same potential as the 1068, but too few growers who give them a spot in the patch. Let's face it, we only have so many spots.

11/26/2008 10:12:22 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Way too many growers out there make the same great crosses as the heavy hitters, but do not grow their own seeds. I think the prevailing attitude is that "he grew a bigger pumpkin from it, so it must be a better seed". I'm growing all of my own seeds next year and picking one outside seed as a pollinator. I may fail again at achieving the 1k mark, but it will be of my own doing. Spending big bucks for a seed just because it's a world record doesn't get it anymore.

11/26/2008 10:21:06 PM

Ohio

G, I thought you said the 45 Grimes was the best ever seed?

11/26/2008 10:59:55 PM

Puyallup, WA

My fellow growers....it's the "right" seed in the "right" hands that determines if a record pumpkin is grown. We now know that even "cool" weather can produce a 1500 pounder....ala Jake Van Kooten!

11/26/2008 11:21:21 PM

Ohio

1068 Wallace (Going off AGGC)

2007 18 over 1000lbs ( 2nd,4th biggest in the world )
2006 22 over 1000lbs ( 1 world record, 2nd in the world )
2005 10 over 1000 lbs ( 6th in world)

9 pumpkins grown over 1400 lbs

(I did this quick and could also be off 1 or 2)

11/26/2008 11:32:59 PM

Port Alberni, BC, Canada

There are many great seeds out there sitting in sock drawers. Any one of them, planted under the right conditions, by many good growers, could produce huge fruit. I'm not suggesting world records but certainly 1K's.
Most of us growers would love for someone like Pap to "promote" a seed. The 1068 is a product of such promotion and the results are obvious.
I believe that if you research the genetics of your seed, and you find that the 723, 845, 735 with perhaps a touch of Knaus, is dominant, you probably have a winner and you should really be planting that seed.
Remember, for most of us, if you don't "prove" your own seed, no one else will either.
IMHO

11/27/2008 12:05:43 AM

Ohio

Lets just say you had a 845,898,935,567 and a 1068 Wallace and you was wanting to go big(like most of us do), I definatly know the one Id grow out of that bunch.

Lets say you had all of the seeds listed above with only one spot to plant , and was really wanting to grow that humdinger of a pumpkin , would you grow a 567,898,935 or a 845 if you had a 1068, really???? I bet 90 % of you guys would grow that 1068 in competition if you was trying to win a weigh off, wouldnt you? surely you would???,,lol.

The 898 is a great pollinator with out question and a great seed, but to say its the best seed of all times? I dunno about that one ether. When I think of the best seed of all times I think of what seed would grow me the biggest right now if I had a chance to grow it.

11/27/2008 12:52:03 AM

Clinton, Iowa

Don't you think fruit stability could or should have some role in your choices?? The 1068 wallace is obviously a great seed but seems to have some serious genetic flaws in it. We were lucky enough to grow one in 2008 and it was massively flawed and never stood a chance to make it to the end.If we had another one I believe Marc and I would pass on it.To date I think I have seen 5 1068 fruits in person. all were splitters but one. That is a pretty poor results. So I think maybe we should include other things other then just how big of fruit a seed has grown.
The 1068 has had the luxury of alot of top notch growers throwing it into the ground. That helps with the bottom line. I agree with alot of what is said. There are tons of great seeds out there Just waiting to have Quinn grow it and prove it out!!LOL!!
DAN

11/27/2008 6:00:50 AM

Ohio

Dan, 'pass on 1068',,, Your nose just reached me here in Ohio,,,,,Ha!!

11/27/2008 8:21:02 AM

Ohio

But I still luv ya anyway ol bud!,,lol

11/27/2008 8:22:19 AM

[email protected]

If you are really wanting the greatest seed of all time, It has to be the 935 Lloyd, without it, the 845, 723, 1068, 998 wouldn't have happened, and this post would have 3 entry's,
Greatest can't be only about what a single seed produced, It's what the seed did for the history of the giants, The history of the 935 Lloyd gets better every year.

11/27/2008 9:26:41 AM

Leicester, NY

To answer Brett’s question of what seed did the most to advance our hobby, I’m going back in time and my picks are the 935 Lloyd and 935 Lloyd. Specifically, two of 935’s that Bill Bobier bought at the Grower’s seminar, Guelph, Ontario in 1999. For those that were not there that day, Bill was first in line and with the first come, first serve etiquette in place then, he was allowed to purchase all the 935’s, perhaps 5 or 6 in all. Didn’t seem fair at that time that no one else in line would have a chance for those coveted seeds. But as luck would have it, all turned out well when the 723 and 845 were grown in 1999 and 2000 respectively off those 935 Lloyds. For me personally, the 723 changed my pumpkin growing life in 2000 with my first 4 digit fruit. Together, the 723 and 845 have had perhaps the biggest impact on where we are with today’s genetics. Mix in the 898 and 846 genetics and you get the 1068 and 998.6 and all the other wonderful seeds of today.

11/27/2008 9:36:04 AM

Ohio

I agree about the 935 Lloyd, but if you go back further in the genetic line, you have the 355.6 Dill (85) and the 493.5 Dill (81). These Dill genetics gave rise to many great seeds, including the 935 and many others. Its hard to say what the greatest seed of all time is, unless you go by performance, but these great seeds started somewhere.

11/27/2008 9:47:17 AM

Newmarket, NH USA

935 Lloyd and 567 Mombert these 2 seeds may have not grown the biggest pumpkins but I think they are found in all the best seeds if you go back in the family trees. And with out them we may not be where we are today.

11/27/2008 10:43:03 AM

Clinton, Iowa

Brooks
You know I luv you also!!LOL!! Seriously Brooks with only 5 spots to grow for fall competition we going to try and pick seeds that have a better history of getting to the weigh off in one piece.
Using this Quote from Pap in an earlier thread
"many great crosses to choose from but this i know.

other than a couple 1068 seeds we have left i will never again plant a seed with a reputation for dill rings and really odd shapes.

when ya plant these types you are already at wish and hope from the begining."

That pretty much sums up how our 1068 went...never had a chance to make it....that is 20% of our shot getting to a weigh off..pretty big chunk....we grew a big pumpkin from a 1097 beachy in 2004 ...1432 pounds in 2004 only 68 day old..something like that..never planted a 1097 beachy again.
I just think that thru all the genetics and crosses people are doing we are slowly getting seeds available that have taken alot of these faults out of the equation....But let's face it..we are all trying to grow a freak of nature and failures are going to happen..it's just the way things go sometimes.
just my thoughts
DAN

11/27/2008 3:36:00 PM

Upstate S.C.

OK, I was the first one to post the "1068" as the GREATEST SEED OF ALL TIME. And I stand firmly behind that answer, and here's why. Like many reply's to post this one has went way to far OFF the intended answer. Now this is a good thing, because it show's different people's opinion's on things which we all need, however we must not think TO MUCH into the answer to this important question. I mean if you want to one could make the argument that Dill's 400 pound first world record should be the answer to this question, because ALL great pumpkins probably came from this pumpkin. We can not nor should not think TO FAR into this question. Which brings me back to the 1068 Wallace, this one single pumpkin IF I am corrct has grown more pumpkins of 1000 lbs than any other pumpkin, and I also think this holds true for pumpkins over 1400 lbs, like I said my number may be wrong but I don't belive they are. And I truly belive this is one of the best ways to really compute the growing power of a certain seed. I mean the question is what is the Greatest Seed of All Time, break this down even futher, the question means what pumpkin created the created seed of all time. The fact is that most 1000 pound pumpkins and 1400 lbs have 1068 in them SOMEWERE, and THIS is the reason it is the Greatest Seed of All Time. Because it started it ALL, it was the FIRST of the really big pumpkins. Thank Chris

11/27/2008 7:26:25 PM

Ohio

Dan, we gotta talk about them 1068's you have left!!,,,lol

11/27/2008 8:30:26 PM

Brooklyn Corner, Nova Scotia

Well the thread has taken a turn or two so- the 935 Lloyd being the greatest IMHO and the 898 Knauss being the best pollinator, then logically Eddy's 522- 935 Lloyd x 898 Knauss deserves more attention....

11/27/2008 9:06:40 PM

Commack, NY

part of the allure of the 1068 was the marketing genius behind it. you had top notch growers giving it their best soil. It put the new england group on the map and has genterated a TON of publicity and im sure $$ as well. Without the 1068 doing what it had done, would you have as many people spending hard earned money just to have the RIGHT to spend even more money on seeds from that group? hard to say.........but i say you put some other seed in top growers hands and get them to plant it, you'll have the next greatest seed, no matter what it is.

11/27/2008 9:49:05 PM

nOVA sCOTIA

I agree. Give them an 1142 or 1287 Vankooten and take notice. Carl.

11/27/2008 11:43:52 PM

Rhode Island

Without the 1068 doing what it has done would you have as many people spending hard earned money just to have the RIGHT to spend even more money on seeds from that group?
( Thats quite a Statement )

YES I AGREE THAT IF YOU GO BACK A FEW YEARS THE 1068 WAS THE SEED THAT DID JUMP START THE SNGPG GROUP. BUT OTHER THINGS COME INTO PLAY WHEN REVIEWING THE SUCCESS OR FAILURE OF PUMPKIN CLUBS TO RAISE MONEY.
ITS NOT ALL ABOUT JUST ONE SEED. ITS ABOUT NEED AND DESIRE TO BELONG TO A SUCCESSFULL ORGANIZATION.
ITS ABOUT A CLUB THAT HAS MORE THAN ITS SHARE OF VERY GOOD GROWERS. GROWERS WHOSE SEEDS WILL ALWAYS BE IN DEMAND.NAME AND REPUTATIONS COMES INTO PLAY AS WELL. AN IMMAGE WE WILL PROTECT AT ALL COSTS.NO ONE CAN EVER SAY THE SNGPG SCREWED THEM OUT OF ANYTHING.

WE ARE ABLE TO GET THE SEEDS FOR OUR PROMO FROM THE HOBBIES BEST GROWERS BECAUSE WE HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP WITH THEM. THIS IS BUILT OVER YEARS NOT DAYS OF FRIENDSHIP AND HONEST RELATIONSHIPS. OTHERS DONATE JUST BECAUSE THE YWANT TO BE A PRAT OF THE PROMO AND WISH TO SEE THEIR SEEDS DISTRIBUTED.

WE GENERATE A LARGE AMOUNT OF FUNDING SO THAT WE CAN PRODUCE A TOP QUALITY NEWSLETTER, A FIRST CLASS WEIGH-OFF PAYOUT SCHEDULE AND PURCHASE / DISTRIBUTE GIFTS OF ONE FORM OR ANOTHER TO MEMBERS AT OUR WEIGH-OFF FROM TIME TO TIME, ETC.
ALL THE THINGS THAT GO INTO A SUCCESSFULL ORGANIZATION.
WE ALSO FUND 75% OF OUR WEIGH-OFF AWARD SCHEDULE.OUR SPONSOR ONLY OROVIDES 25%.

LASTLY? OUR CORE GROUP OF DIRECTORS WORK VERY HARD DURING THE OFF SEASON BE IT GATHERING SEEDS FOR PROMO OR AUCTION, SEEKING BEW SPONSORS FOR THE CLUB, RESEARCHING ARTICLES THAT WOULD BE OF INTEREST TO OUR MEMBERS. AND YES ---SELLING SEED PACKETS TO OUR MEMBERS.
BY THE WAY EACH SEED IN THE MEMNER PROMO PACKS THAT ENDS UP COSTING THEM AN AVERAGE OF $4.00 PER SEED, ARE THE SAME SEEDS THAT COULD SELL FOR TEN TIMES THAT AT AUCTION.

I CONSIDER THIS A GREAT VALUE TO OUR MEMBERS AS WELL AS A GREAT FUND GENERATOR FOR THE CLUB.

PAP

11/28/2008 6:41:39 AM

Greencastle, PA

I'm surprised that the 827 and 722 Holland haven't been mentioned

11/28/2008 9:14:30 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Pap, you and Ron should both be VERY proud (as well as the rest of the SNGPG) for doing what you do!!! Scott, might have stated it best..."marketing genius"!!! I am now a member of the SNGPG, and will continue to be!!! I will gladly send in the $'s for a chance at next year's seed pkg!!! What you do for AG growers, not to mention the OAF is incredible!!! Peace, Wayne

11/29/2008 2:19:01 AM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

I don't think Scott was, in any way, bashing the SNGPG. I don't think you'll find another group out there who works harder at promoting the hobby and GIVING.

Scott was making a simple statement of fact. The 1068 produced the world's first, highly anticipated 1500 pound pumpkin. This in itself generated the desire by so many people to have one, including many notable growers. That fact that it saw so much prime dirt produced the 1068's numbers today. There's no crime in cashing in on its success. After all, isn't that what growing clubs do to raise money for themselves in order provide the best seminars, prize money, and the ABILITY to donate to needy causes?

11/29/2008 8:07:58 AM

Commack, NY

i wasnt bashing the SNGPG group at all. The promotion, marketing and execution of everything surrounding the 1068 was as perfectly choreographed as it gets. The 723 was a hot, highly sought after seed, but the SNGPG and the 1068 took everything to a whole other level.

11/29/2008 9:42:31 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

Scott, sorry if my response sounded like I thought you were bashing...I did not think that at all!!! I just wanted to thank Pap and Ron for all they do!!! Peace, Wayne

11/30/2008 1:08:46 AM