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Farmville, Virginia ([email protected])

If you have an ongoing problem with pumpkins splitting on the blossom end but you know your calcium levels are correct and water has been consistent what other factors can cause this?

8/29/2008 8:45:52 PM

Western NY

have you walked under any ladders lately? that may be my problem.

8/29/2008 9:41:56 PM

I'm convinced tempature swings did 3 of mine in this year, I have been checking Ca levels in the plants this season all are in the high range,,the 2 fruit I have disected both had over 6" of meat at the blossum end and no tell tale signs of anything else going wrong.

I think that the influx of fluids vary alot when you have a streak of 40° nights followed by 1 or 2 in the 60's then back to 40 again,,at least this is the only reason I can figure out at this point. I had total control of the water for over 4 weeks (no rain) during the "spurt" and these 3 were all slower growing fruit. All fruit have been covered when temps are below 60°,,any thoughts on this theroy are welcomed.

8/29/2008 9:43:46 PM

LOL andy !

8/29/2008 9:44:06 PM

[email protected]

I believe the problem in most cases is genetic. Some seed lines tend to have "V" shaped groves in the flesh of the pumpkin on the inside, not visible from the outside, that run from the stem end to the blossom end. I believe this is a genetic issue, not realated to available nutrients.

I also agree with Dan's post above. In some cases the weather is the cause. Sometimes it can be prevented and sometimes it can't.

8/30/2008 12:19:31 AM

Farmville, Virginia ([email protected])

Punkin Pharmer, I do agree with your theory, however these were three pumpkins all on plants of totally different seed lines. I guess it's just one of those great mysteries.

8/30/2008 2:26:19 AM

Lloydminster/AB

i think Andy is right. I can control humidity and temperature. My calcium levels are high. The nutrients are right on the money. I have a perfectly level base and a shaded and blanketed fruit. Both fruit grown in these conditions have split. The one I grew off the 1137 Crews hurt because it looked exactly like my 1137. The 1137 didn't have so much as a crack in it. Yet there is a carbon copy of my fruit grown this year with a huge split in the blossom end. The only think of is that it is all the ladders I am forced to walk underneath at work is causing me bad luck. I will have to be more careful next time. LOL

Honestly I am not sure it is even a genetic thing. It has to do with rate of growth, especially when the fruit is young. The faster growing fruits I have when young have split on me when they are older. I believe those cracks form very early and it takes quite a while to present itself.

8/30/2008 11:09:42 AM

Taber, Alberta

I tend to agree with Don. I've had a few splits in the past, and after opening them up, it's clear to see that the splits didn't form just before it split. The defect had to have happened when the fruit was quite a bit younger.
Course now that I've typed in the "s" word, I'm afraid to go check my pumpkins!

8/30/2008 11:47:51 AM

Rhode Island

Its odd but think about this for a minute.
I dont recall hearing of any splits, blow outs, dill rings,etc when 700 pounds was a world record weight?

We have all played a hand in developing this freakish of all hobbies.
Most of us dont have any genetics or soil/plant science type background ( or ay least i dont ) so all we do is keep intoducing and reintroducing in some cases the same genetic history. Plus we have developed our soils to the max benefit.

Is it any wonder we have internal splits? The fruits inner walls cant keep pace with the large daily internal weight gains in july and early august.somethings gotta give right?

There in i believe lies the culprit. large daily gains on a good competition pumpkin are and will in the future be subject to possible failure.

solve the internal cracking and/or thing blossom walls condition we deal with and you will be my hero --------for life --- lol

pap

8/30/2008 8:07:05 PM

Eugene,OR

Pap: I thought you and Ron solved that problem already with the 1068.

8/30/2008 11:26:11 PM

[email protected]

My opinion: growth flux often related to temperature flux.

There always seems to be a rash of splits in the several 85-90° days following the first 2 or 3 cool (under 65°) nights.
Warm days following the thunderstorm (especially if it had been dry) is another opportunity for disaster. Rain from a lightning event brings a LOT of NITROGEN with it.

Whether using night time blankets or huts; every effort should be made to keep the fruit growth steady assuming that the basic moisture & fertility needs have already been met.

That aside....sometimes it just can't be avoided when the tape is ramping up to a record finish.

8/31/2008 8:17:11 AM

Somers, CT

My 1300 split this year which resulted in an early vacation. I would say the 1068 is not exempt. We had heat, sun, cold, rain, more rain, more rain, heat, sun, cold...

I could not keep up. Only thing that liked it was cukes and hot peppers.

8/31/2008 9:50:44 AM

Clayton, Ohio, USA

I believe Pap's right on the money as usual. It might be beneficial to select seeds from fruit that maybe don't peak so high per day but ones that grow for an unusually long period of time - the 1631 McKie '07 comes to mind. Marathon pumpkins rather than sprinters may help to reduce internal stress on the fuit. Just a thought.

8/31/2008 12:32:44 PM

New York

Pap- We definitely had our share of splits, blow outs, and dill rings in the pre-700 era. Off the top of my head I recall Richard Wright and his 594 in 1986...world record was 612 at the time and his split pumpkin made some noise a month before weigh-off. Len Stellpflug lost one in 1987 at 593 pounds that was heading for the first ever 700+ and an easy world record.I remember that day well...blossom split. Ray Waterman brought in his 644 to the 1988 contest, which was the worlds largest that year, but couldn't qualify due to a nasty split on the bottom. I know I lost my first pumpkin to a split in 1986. It wasn't uncommon for many growers to lose pumpkins to splits (many potential WR's)in those day's...just not at the extent we're seeing now with these monsters.

9/1/2008 2:33:24 AM

New York

Is there any chance the composition of the pumpkin changes once a 40 degree day is experienced (mother nature thinking fall is near)? Has anyone ever taken something like a red delicious apple and placed one in the fridge and one on the counter. The one in the fridge is crisp and the one on the counter is almost mealy in texture...almost like 2 different apples? I'm probably wrong here, but is there any chance the sugars in the pumpkin somehow consolidate or become more dense once cold temps are introduced? Then when the growth surge comes along on a nice 85 degree day,the flesh is compromised (not as flexible as before) and splits? I keep thinking there has to be something else going on here...it's one thing to see a 50 pound "per day" pumpkin let go. It's another to see a 300 pounder growing 4 pounds a day split on the blossom with no signs of stress.

9/1/2008 2:55:47 AM

South East

Growing Giant pumpkins is walking a thin line. First of all we pump up soils. Optimizing everything possible, basic npk, micronutrients, microbial life. We try to create the most of healtiest inviroments. Then on top op that we add humates, humic and fulvic,,,wich chelates even more nutrients, and on top of that we add fungi like myccorhizea, to increase the uptake off already abundant nutrients.
So we have a plant that already has an enormous appetite, we optimize its way of taking up food, and we give it more food then it can handle, cause besides the unbelievable soil, theres the foliar treatment and drenches ofcourse.
And then when it splits, we are suprised?
Many factors influence its growthrate. temperature, moisture, ratio of nutients. All of them are hardly ever really optimal. But when because of external factors, for a brief moment it all lines up, the growth happening wil be fast and to great to handle. Growth hardly ever is constant, theres always peaks and lows.
Maybe taking a serious look at feeding programs, pruning, would help. And aspecially the timing of those. (feeding, pruning). If you would make a car that has 7000 hp, let it run on jetfuel and then just would hold in the throttle, what do you think? could it blow up?

9/1/2008 8:51:52 AM

White Plains, NY

The Dill Ring Lives and killed my 800 pounder. Gene defect?

Pap that was on your 1110 Wallace, any other Dill ring problems?

9/1/2008 12:11:15 PM

Alan I like that idea and have pretty much subscribed to something going on with uptake during temperature swings.If it is sugar content perhaps brix tissue tests would show something (then again I'm not to keen on slicing and dicing my fruit).

I keep my fruit wrapped and in the mornings they still have ambient heat. Does the actual exposed plant and the dropping soil temp play a role? the off and on of the "surge pump" so to speak?,,,lots of questions and not many answers at this point.

none of the 3 I lost this year were growing at an alarming rate they were the slowest growers in the patch,,hmmmmm more questions

9/1/2008 1:08:16 PM

New York

Tina and Frank- I agree with everything you say, but what concerns me is what happens on a much more basic level. In the past I've taken Atlantic Giant seeds and thrown them in a pile of dirt. No soil test, no additional nutrients, no organic matter, no foliar, no nothing....just plain old dirt. 4 months later there's a few pumpkins growing on a half dead plant suffering from powdery mildew. And what happens? One of the pumpkins suffers a blossom end split. I ask myself "how in the world does this happen"? Then the obvious thought comes to mind that if they can let go from no apparent signs of stress, then we're in for a lot of trouble when we start pushing them to the limit...and that's what we see today. So I end up going back to that 300 pounder that was growing 2 pounds a day and ask "why did that happen"? After all these years of growing I have some ideas, but nothing set in stone. I think Tremor is correct with the high nitrogen associated with increased splits, along with ideas others have had that contribute to the problem. I agree temperature is a huge factor and a big believer in the use of blankets. At the end of the day I guess were growing a freak of nature that will always be difficult to control. What I'm dreaming about the most is the day someone comes to me and say's "Alan, your 300 pumpkin split because........".

9/1/2008 1:41:06 PM

New York

Dan- I wonder the same thing as you do. We're doing a much better job protecting the fruit, but there's still exposure to the plant and soil. Back in 2004 I enclosed a 723 plant in hopes of increased growth during a very difficult summer. I controlled plant temperature using a propane heater...it's in my 2004 diary I believe...and the pumpkin still let go.
You know how the pumpkin flesh is yellow/white during the early stages and then turns to that regular orange color at seasons end? Is there a stage when this flesh is beginning to "mature" and becoming more ridged, say day 40, that really puts the pumpkin at a disadvantage...making it that more difficult to hold up against the stress...even if it's past it growth peak? Like yourself I have lost pumpkins well past their growing prime and was surprised when they let go.

9/1/2008 2:00:11 PM

South East

has anyone ever did a tissue test of the split pumpkins and compared them to fruit that didnt split? just curious,
Dan, you ask if the exposed plant plays a role. I.d like to think so, after all its the plant thats creating the energy to grow, so energy flow towards the fruit is determined by the plant not the pumpkin. But alans question is a good one. If growth rate is minimal why do the split. Stess is my best guess, And most likely of not one but several reasons. Fluctuations in temperature, humidity, soil moisture and fertilizer levels.
Splitting occurs to fruit all over the world, and not just pumpkins. Tomtoes, melons, citrus,, You name it,,
I dont think theres gonna be a resistent gene to this. keeping growth circumstances as even as possible througout the season might be the best shot we got.
Some loose em after rain, some after cold, some after pushing them to hard.
That 300 lbser that grew 2 lbs a day. it had pm , so it was a weekend plant. a stressed plant. that could explain the split. Stress i think, is sometimes hard to see on a plant. Signs are not always ovious, and we can not look inside it, or in the soil.
Blankets help the fruit against wind, rain, and protect the skin. But if the nutrients are derrived from a cold soil, then what happens if a cold nutrient flow hits a relative warm pumpkin?

9/1/2008 2:04:06 PM

good stuff here (and glad to see your posts Alan!)

one long time grower and better "observers" once mentioned last year that perhaps barometric pressure plays a key in this,,,interesting concept there as well I think

9/1/2008 3:49:43 PM

Joliet, IL

]i like alan's rationale with also the the genetic predisposition to thin blossum end flesh or calcium deficiencies in soil. but mostly "slow as cold molasses" has to mean something. we can wrap the pumpkin up at night, but the sugar water in the whole plant has to be affected by temperature by the nature of plasma itself...molasses like. i have had some pumpkins weep soo much liquid ooze from minor shoulder splitting that was so fluid, more like water than sap. the pumpkins were fine in the long run, but that living fluid can change viscosity very easily throughout a entire cold plant, let alone a cold pumpkin. i would imagine that the structure and viscosity of incoming fluid into the pumpkin changes the building of flesh for that time period of growth. there might be rings of growth similar to a tree with some rings more rigid than others. there has to be some inconsistency in the growth pattern that stimulates an actual internal fissuring process. i would think that different layers of rigidity of an expanding mass with increased weight loads will ultimately give failure to the weakest point which in many cases is the blossum end. most failing splits on my end are internal splits that finally show when the reach the sufarce. external splitting that leads inward is a separate issue and many times is no problem except asthetics.

9/1/2008 10:50:40 PM

[email protected]

Not many fave been growing as long as Alan.

I think that Alan's refrigerated apple analogy is just what we need to be thinking about. Cold & crisp might taste good but warm & soft will be less likely to explode if the fool thing is still growing.

9/1/2008 10:50:50 PM

Joliet, IL

the BES splits that hit im my experience happens after a cool couple nights followed by rain and cloudy days then hot sun and the 3rd day of hot sun...then boom. concrete at different liquid levels and heat levels react differently with structural integrity. pumpkin juices and flesh would have to follow some of the same principals i would think. with continued info and growing years, it will someday be figured out why exactly it happens and then you can find the solutions to minimize the occurance rate. blueberry and cherry farmers have been fighting the split fruit problem for years. maybe info outside the actual pumpkin industry could help in the answer to why.

9/1/2008 10:51:02 PM

Fairport,NY

Hey Alan, Carl Greene lost his biggest a few days ago to a BES. Cool nights and hot days....

9/2/2008 9:25:48 PM

New York

Sorry to hear Carl lost his biggest fruit. Haven't spoken to him this season, but I'm sure we'll meet up this fall.
Like MANY growers this season, I too lost my best pumpkin to a split last Friday. Measured 1134 on Saturday at day 60....will keep it on the vine a few more weeks then put on a scale for fun.
It's times like this that make you look back and wonder what could have been done. I've enjoyed everyones input on the subject and now realize I'm more confused than ever...lol. It's just one of the realities of this hobby I guess...and at the same time the #1 hobby killer I'm afraid for some. Hopefully down the line we'll have a better understanding on how to help prevent the problem and get more pumpkins to the weigh-off in one piece.

9/3/2008 1:31:37 AM