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[email protected]

OK, we all go through the fall prep, get our soil just right etc. That's all fine and good, but wouldn't we be better off doing our prep in stages, Do the planting area in the fall, then May 1, do the middle area, and June 1st do the outer edges of the patch,
By doing it in the fall, a lot of the nutrients are washed away with 10 or 15 inches of rain, before the plant even gets to that area of the patch.
The reason I ask is, As you know I grow in green houses, Now this year I changed my watering pattern, So there are areas that never seen any moisture from the 1st of October until now, I tell you, don't try this unless your ready for a carpet of weeds and instantly, which is OK, beause the weeds are a week old and tilled in. But I am releasing the nutrients in stages, really seems to make a difference.
any thoughts

7/26/2008 12:22:45 AM

Farmville, Virginia ([email protected])

Never thought about it that way Iceman but you might be on to something.

7/26/2008 1:07:41 AM

Littleton, Colo

I've thought that too Ice...by the time my main hitz the endz (25 to 30 ft out) I wonder what'z there.....I guess it would depend on what you're going to till in....doez it need time to break down vs not as much time....our compost seemz to have quite a bit of wood which you would think needz extra time and nitro......

7/26/2008 1:23:37 AM

Littleton, Colo

......just noticed the time you pozted Iceman....up working late on the plant ?? did your ship come in ?? lol

7/26/2008 1:26:04 AM

[email protected]

Biz
Only time I have for the plants is from midnight until 6 AM, so we're on coffee break, lol
I understand the break down of materials, But as an example, I use lots of barley and oat straw, as we don't have many trees for leaves, and I run it through a chipper, then spread and till it in, once I put water to it, the straw is pretty much all gone in 3 weeks, so the nutrients would be available.
Also the breakdown happens very fast in the heat of summer, rather than in the fall when it's cool and in some cases frozen

7/26/2008 1:55:09 AM

Annapolis Valley Nova Scotia

Ice it sounds like a great idea, but getting the balance right might be a problem? Ph especially, how long does it take for lime to balance out an acidic soil, I think you would end up doing half a dozen soil tests to make sure it is right. Just a thought.

7/26/2008 3:15:16 AM

South East

eddy, this year i started my entire patch two weeks before season start. Basicly meaning that my soil been working all the time. Didnt seem to have any bad effects on the soil. If the soil has a good basis of nutrients i think spring prep is better then fall prep. ph adjustments can be made within a month or two. And if its not off really bad, is doesnt really matter as it fluctuates anyway.
I think prepp in fall is good for bigger stuff such as your 0m%, ph, and a good cec(hand in hand with om) but any real fine tweeking should be done in the spring. And i think most already do it like this. Stages might make for diffrent areas in your patch, all having diffrent nrs.
Mid season feeding wil have to make up for leaching, cause leaching is ineveratable, since the plants grows for 5 months.

7/26/2008 10:27:05 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Phil has a point. The biggest reason for putting stuff down in the fall is to allow everything to breakdown and mix in properly. I suppose if you weren't changing the pH and all your ammendments were as broken down as you want, it would be a better way to go.

7/26/2008 11:04:45 AM

[email protected]

Good stuff, BUT
OK we know that we need balance through out the patch, but do we really, Do the plants not take up what they need if available, So here is another point, By staging the prep, you in essence have 3 zones to pull nutrients from, If an area is depleted of nitrogen, the plant would draw it from area 2, and so on,
By doing it in stages, wouldn't you be giving your plant the oportunity to draw everything it could need.
As far as PH, yes this is a factor, but I don't believe it to be as much of a factor as made out to be. A ph of 8 can and has produced as well as a 7 ph, and I believe it would prove this more if we didn't bother with the PH as much as we do.
Why do we want an ideal PH of 6.8? because we were told it to be right, But Jack Larue did 1420 lbs with a PH of over 8, I believe.
And if PH varience blocks and retards the uptake of certain nutrients, and having different zones, with 3 different PH levels, wouldn't that be better.

I know, too much heat(finally) and sleep deprevation. But still thinking out loud

7/26/2008 12:33:41 PM

Simi valley, ca

yes iv thought of this too, But lets not forget just how fast the roots travel ! We dont want to disturb more than we have too , Yes im sure some will recooperate but it will make plant wilt & thous burn leaves ,!

7/26/2008 2:20:33 PM

Littleton, Colo

Pull up your plantz Ice and let'z find out !! Start with the dancing machine plant !! LOL

7/27/2008 10:08:32 PM

Littleton, Colo

....One other thing....we here in Littleton don't take breakz.......ever !

7/27/2008 10:09:26 PM

Kalamazoo, MI ([email protected])

The fissssh man has a good point...last year after the end of the season I traced a medium-sized root off of a secondary to see how long it was. Finally when it became too fine to dig up I broke it off and measured it - 22 feet long. It dove down to two feet in spots, but ended up about eight inches below the soil surface.

IMHO: If you have a thorough knowledge of your soil, and you know how your amendments will affect it and each other, spring and summer additions to the patch are not out of the question. For example, if you know that one corner of the patch will only have late-season new growth, you can amend that area at the appropriate time to optimize your soil conditions for that stage of plant. Unfortunately, many people amend their patch without the slightest clue of what the final effect will be.

For example --- fresh manure added to soil will immediately provide a small amount of N in inorganic form. However, both fresh and composted manure is comprised mainly of organic N, which isn't available to plants until microorganisms break down the compounds that contain it. This takes time - what you added 2 or 3 yrs ago is still affecting your soil. Is there bedding mixed into your manure? Nitrogen is the rate-limiting factor for the breakdown of high-carbon materials (like straw and sawdust) because the bacteria that work on them use N to do so. A C/N ratio of 25:1 or more will tie up the N in your soil, creating a potential deficiency that will need to be properly compensated for.

The moral of the story...go to your local extension office and get on a first-name basis with your Master Gardeners. They can help you make wise choices concerning soil amendments.

7/28/2008 1:30:45 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Most pumpkin growers can work circles around the master gardeners when it comes to soil. Then have them saying what? We get the soil levels to nominals they think are toxic.

7/28/2008 2:33:02 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Eddy.....I have seen the IceBreaker....And I too wanted to start my patch prep early....However there is one who made BiZ last week want to start a cover crop early too.......

A NEW COLORADO STATE RECORD IS IN THE MAKING.....by the one they call JOE.....Wow this is going to be fun to watch now........

7/28/2008 2:43:50 PM

Kalamazoo, MI ([email protected])

I know that most MGs are not familiar with giant pumpkins, however they have a general knowledge of amending that would be helpful to new growers. If someone doesn't know what lime is, let alone the effect it will have, a master gardener can help explain that in detail. You are absolutely right, Shannon, most of them will not be able to tell you how to amend properly for giant pumpkins, and most growers ARE fully capable of working their own patches. I simply meant that MGs can help explain amendments, their purpose, and their effect on the soil and plants. They're also helpful in explaining soil test results. The growers can then apply that knowledge to achieve the desired results in their soil, rather than amend and cross their fingers afterward. The more in-depth information you have, the more dead-on your amendments can be.

Some master gardeners have decades of experience...they may not agree with or understand your plans for your patch, but bring them your test results and tell them where you want to be, and they certainly can get you there.

Cheers,
Kel

7/28/2008 4:09:42 PM