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Decatur, IL

I've heard that some growers are broacast planting pumpkin seeds ahead of their competition plants. The idea is that the growth of the "seed" plants roots will greatly increase the growing mass of mycorrizal hyphae. I plan on planting buckwheat in my patch after I put my plants out. Can this take the place of the pumpkin plants, or do I need to use pumpkins or some other cucurbits?

4/28/2008 3:04:09 PM

Somers, CT

I usually spray a couple pounds of 1068 Wallace seeds out to the patch. Mico travels with the roots of the plant. Better to use some on the seedling, when transplanted and along the trenches of the vines. Some growers have found it at the end of the patch at the end of the season. I do not think what you are stating is a viable option but I have been wrong. Maybe they are on to something.

4/28/2008 7:54:48 PM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

You did not hear that anywhere...and these are not the droids you are looking for.

4/28/2008 8:47:27 PM

Long Island,New York

Jordan, you continue to amaze me.
CM....I brought this idea up at the niagara seminar. The plan is to take excess seeds and start plants at 3 foot intervals in the patch to cover the patch. A dash of myco in each seedling hole should allow colonization of the young plant's root system (if myco actually works). As your competition plant advances through the patch the seedlings are cut at the surface leaving the colonized root systems beneath the soil. As the competition plant sends down roots or as its roots advance in the patch they move into a soil system with established myco colonies just waiting to colonize the competition roots. This should, in theory, eliminate any lag time that might exist if you were dropping a pinch as you burry---the myco is already alive and colonizing in the soil. Thats the idea, thats the theory. (Dr. Linderman thought it was an excellent idea Jordan)

4/28/2008 9:24:16 PM

[email protected]

This is a great idea.

4/28/2008 9:42:07 PM

No Place Special

Sounds like a great idea to me. I dont see what it could hurt! Has anyone tried it yet?

4/28/2008 10:15:34 PM

Leamington, Ont.

Oh crap, where is my neuralizer? ;)

4/28/2008 10:30:25 PM

Picton,ON ([email protected])

The only caution I would make is potential allelopathy from the decaying root mass when you pull the smaller plants. This is basically toxic chemicals released during the decay process, that could inhibit growth of the primary pumpkin. I have seen this occur in field crops.

4/28/2008 10:48:48 PM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

I don't ever remember saying it was my idea. You know winter is over right G...lol.

4/28/2008 10:59:51 PM

Midwest

Jordan:

This is true. Several IGPGA members saw a movie at AgriEnergy Resources, Inc. soil seminar about pre-innoculating the growing medium with the fungi. In the movie, the people in this village make an annual trip taking some of the rice from the harvest to bury next to bamboo trees. After a few days, the rice gets innoculated and the farmers dig it up and spread it on their 'fields'. In this case, the field is rice patties. This practice increases their rice yield. Why wouldn't the same practice work on pumpkins? I agree good idea!
Greg

4/28/2008 11:32:59 PM

Leamington, Ont.

I think everyone read JRO's post wrong! It was a joke, haha...Nothing to see here...While whistling suspiciously!

We're actually both trying this already. Hence the multiple plants in our mounds (see diaries), and more seedlings to come... No, it wasn't our idea, but it sure is a good one!!

4/29/2008 12:26:50 AM

St. Thomas Ontario

"Try it too I will" (said in a froglike voice;)

4/29/2008 6:40:21 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

G, I was there when you brought up that idea and I thought it was brillant, I planned on doing that this year cuz it just made damn good sense. I felt that this was a diamond in the sand for those who attended.....

4/29/2008 8:40:37 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Score one for Sav. I still can't understand why you rub some people the wrong way Glenn. Oh well.

4/29/2008 9:09:49 AM

Decatur, IL

Thanks for reminding me, Greg. I too saw that video. Someone from Agri-Energy, I forgot the name, also mentioned that we may want to try taking different plant parts (leaves, vines, etc.) from the previous years crop and fermenting them in a jar till the next season. Then, some of this inoculant is used with your foliar spays to increase disease resistance and yield. Kind of the same principle as burying the rice.
Charlie

4/29/2008 10:04:19 AM

Minnesota

So, does that mean, you can grow a plant along side your plant you plan on keeping after it gets going kill it, leave the roots, the plant you keep will be able to use the roots left behind for mycorrihizal hyphae.

4/29/2008 10:14:35 AM

Minnesota

Why not circle the plant with plants and have a mycorr jungle down there.

4/29/2008 10:15:42 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Richard, not exactly use the roots left behind, rather use the already existing colonies of fungi in the old roots left behind, for the new roots (ie. new roots go into the old root area where the colonies already exist).

4/29/2008 10:20:17 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

John, do you think it would be better to keep the plants alive, but very small, to ensure no decay takes place? Would that be possible?

4/29/2008 10:22:21 AM

Garden State Pumpkins

Then why weed the garden if we would allow other plants to use the nutrients then kill em off....I guess it would be okay if we refertilize the area after the plant has been "reduced"...Still no sure about using the same competitive plant in an area where I want my AG's to grow through...wouldn't Myco also attach to let's say winter rye...something that can be turned in for nitrogen as the plant got closer for the nitrogen it will give off...offering SVB's an extra hiding spot and attraction is not something I would look forward to. Just thinking out loud...wish I could have heard the original discussion.

4/29/2008 11:25:08 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Lets assume winter rye would work the same way (not sure if it needs ecto or endo type) I suppose you would have to till the rye under before the pumpkin got there (a decent amount of lead time, since the roots move ahead faster than the plant).

I am thinking that the tilling would disrupt the colony, no?

4/29/2008 12:14:38 PM

[email protected]

Rye isn't inoculated with VAM the way summer annual crops are. I don't know that any decent research has been done in this area. Being able to select a specific cover crop that would support a specific VAM would be awesome. I just don't believe we're there yet.

4/29/2008 1:06:20 PM

Basically all perennial grasses will carry over the VAM ,,this isn't new science folks it's just that the AG crowd just caught on. The native plains had soil rich with these bacteria before we started farming it, tillage and chemicals did the damage.

Will the spores release from those roots(that have to die and breakdown) as fast as adding the inoculant to the warm moist soil at the nodes? Now there is something to consider.

4/29/2008 8:50:02 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

There might be some clues into that timing here.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/hn3713535107l361/fulltext.pdf

The product I used actually smelt of leeks which was a bit of a giveaway.If we need warmer temps to get the myco estblished then we could sow a cover crop (doesn't have to be a conventional one) in the summer and transplant into the patch after the pumpkins have gone.

I like the pumpkin seed idea as well,loads of possibilities out there.

4/30/2008 3:37:12 AM

Rhode Island

there is a lot to what dr. linderman said as glenn noted.

there are ways to incorporate additional activity ahead of the growing plant that can be tried.

personally i feel that after using a mico product for several years there is activity that will carry over to develop each year in your patch

in other words whos to say if you have used the mico product for say three years? that you really even need the expense of adding it each year?

a lot of unanswered questions. we are not experts so we need the advise of experts.

pap

4/30/2008 7:21:17 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

Has anyone or is anyone planning on testing for Myco colonization on AG's this year? Dr Linderman asked this question in Niagara ..Is it expensive? Perhaps those who have the good Dr.'s ear could get a price, we all chip in.....find out what how much and what types are colonized.

4/30/2008 8:38:45 AM

Somers, CT

I love these conversations even as heated as they are. They bring lots of new questions and ideas. I would say, "be nice" but that does not get us anywhere. What a great place to learn. Thanks, and keep it up.

4/30/2008 8:57:07 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Wiz,yes I am,its £30 here for % root colonisation which is bearable,identifying species costs a lot more £80 at least if I remember right.

not cheap but look at what the AG community is spending on the stuff blindfolded!

4/30/2008 11:11:28 AM