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Newmarket, NH USA

Can anyone give me some advice on how to try and sprout seeds that over 15 years old. more heat? soak in anything special? store in freezer before sprouting does this help?

4/1/2008 6:59:05 PM

West Amwell, NJ

I've had seeds that were really hard to get to germinate. I use Hydrogen Peroxide and I've found improved germination rates.

4/2/2008 9:21:30 AM

[email protected]

Matt, I've been playing aroung with old seeds now for the last month, I've posted this question on the AG genetics and breeding board.
If you follow through the info Tom Beachy posted, it will help you a lot.
I've found, so far, to soak the seeds in GA3 at a rate of 500 ppm, for 24 hrs. These seeds were filed as you would do with any other seed. I then did the advanced seed starting method, I removed the shell from the seed. The seed coat removes quite easily after the soak, I then took a paper towel, soaked it in the GA3 solution that I used to soak the seeds in. Now, here is the most important part, SQUEEZE EVER DROP out of the paper towel. The towel should be damp, I then put the seeds into the towel, about 1/2 a towel per seed, and at least double ply all around the seed.
I then placed the seeds into a baggie, sealed it and placed them on a propagation mat, I cover the baggies with a layer of cardboard and away you go.
I've tried the standard seed soak etc and used an egg incubator, with good success, but this other system in at least 25% better. I actually had 2 1989 seeds, They were a nesbitt seed, and they both germinated in 36 hrs, Very exciting for me.
My next attempt was a bunch of 1991 and 1992 seeds, and I was averaging 6 out of 10 this way.
Using hydrogen peroxide is also Ok but the GA3 is much better on the older stuff.
I'm going to keep trying for another 3 weeks, and if I find anything new, I'll post it here.

Eddy

4/2/2008 10:22:55 AM

Sparta, NC

Thanks for the info Eddy

4/2/2008 8:25:59 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

Eddy, as you probably know, I have a little experience with the oldies. My system is very close both ingredient-wise and procedurally, with one slight yet definite difference...I keep my baggies open to fresh air. I'm not going to tell you my way is better, but you may want to give it a sample group to see if it prooves itself out. Good luck, BF
PS. Did you receive my bubble?

4/2/2008 11:19:30 PM

[email protected]

Yes I did and the last of them went out yesterday.
Now, the thing about the baggies makes sense. In my post above I mentioned to make sure the paper towel was damp.
This is because if you seal the baggies and its' too wet, your seed rots, I would suspect with the baggie open, you don't need to be so critical with the moisture content. I'll try that.
Im your experience Brian, how long before you give up on a seed. I've had seeds 5 days old that showed no sign of life, but the seed itself still felt quite firm.
That has been my guideline, 5 days and I think the longest was 6 days.
My longest to germinate this way was 72 hrs or 3 days, and had nothing later.
I like this, Anyone else with thoughts suggestions, etc
TOM BEACHY maybe

4/2/2008 11:53:03 PM

[email protected]

Matt, I would suggest not freezing prior to germinating, I did a bit of an experiment and each time you freeze and thaw the seed it becomes harder to germinate, and with 15 year old seeds, I'll bet they've already hit the freezer more than once.
The propogation mat I have seems to hold at about 82 degrees, and I would suspect the temp in the baggie is about 5 degrees warmer if not more. so this gets you close to the 90 degree range and I'd bet the humidity is around 100 percent, which converts to about 100 degrees with heat indexing. and that goes hand in hand with the incubator tests I was running.

4/3/2008 12:01:18 AM

Indiana

Eddy,
Your results seem to confirm the testing I did on dosage.

Please keep me informed on how the seedlings continue to progress. Watch for weakened first true leaf and vine growth.

I do recall using 375 and 625 ppm applications. If you have some time, I would check both of those dosages as well.

I am 100% sure I used 625 ppm on the 616 Holland to get it to go. I also recall being quite surprised the 616 had a hard time getting a leaf and vine out. The funny thing was that different seed lines reacted differently to the different doses. Newer seeds seemed to be unaffected at 750 ppm, while others were messed up at 375.

Ultimately I settled on 500 ppm because I felt that dose would increase germination substantially, yet have a low risk of seedling hormone imbalance.

As far as the 567 Mombert, I would rather overdose and have a stunted plant than under dose and not have a plant at all. This is why I would check 625 ppm and see what it does under your method. I never removed seed coats. The higher dose did not seem to hurt the Wright seed lines. They germinated quite vigorously.

4/3/2008 12:58:20 AM

[email protected]

Thanks Tom
You know I never kept the seeds alive long enough to check the vigor, or health of the seedling.
I was just excited to get germination and stopped there.
I will start another bunch, and I will try all 3 dosages on the same seed line. and see what happens, I have some old stuff with the 567 in it, so I'll use them, will let you know

4/3/2008 9:22:37 AM

[email protected]

Tom
another question
Do you think removing the seed coat vs not removing it would be similar to different dosages of GA3
you never removed your seed coat and at 625 PPM it would be the same as me at 500 PPM with the seed coat removed.
Just thinking out loud

4/3/2008 9:26:33 AM

[email protected]

Matt
Sorry for running away with your post here, I seem to have taken it over.
Eddy

4/3/2008 9:27:38 AM

Indiana

I dont think you took over his post. This dialog is very helpful in answering his question.

I do not know what removing the seed coat will do. I would assume the concentration is less important than what actually comes in contact with the embryo. But I really have no idea. Maybe if it all soaks in, it doesn't matter?

Tom

4/3/2008 10:16:15 AM

[email protected]

Thanks Tom
Now for all you people out there that are playing around with this stuff, here is a web site with a lot of info on GA3 including mixing rates. Very valuable info
http://www.super-grow.biz/GA3Powder90.jsp

Thanks Don Young, you've been a great help with this

4/3/2008 10:25:59 AM

[email protected]

I received a few emails wanting to know what I'm trying to germinate.
Here is the list
875 Lloyd (96) and 909.5 Lloyd (96), I know the 875 is near impossible, but I have 3 of the and 3 of the 875 lloyd.
These are the parents of the 935 Lloyd.

825.5 Shymanski (96) and the 562 Rose (95) the parents of the 801.5 Stelts, I'm not concerned with the 825, as I've had good success with germinating this seed, it's the 562, I only have 1 of them.

705 Stelts,(99) I have 3 of these, I will germinate or try one seed at a time, I would do a sib if 2 pop, just praying for 1

567.5 Mombert, (92) I have no idea yet as to what to cross it with or anything, will wait for germination

That's the list

4/3/2008 11:08:59 AM

[email protected]

See these links:

http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/GibberellicAcid.htm

more later.

4/3/2008 11:44:34 AM

[email protected]

Steve, thanks another bunch of great info, I see they actually mixed GA3 and peroxide in some experiments, I'm not too excited about that, LOL, I've tried most of the items they mention except the soaking in beer, makes sense I guess because Hopps have many hidden traits, as do most plants.
I still like the GA3 by itself, but I'm going to try a mix of different stuff on long gourds and watermelon seeds, as they can be a bit difficult to germinate.

4/3/2008 12:11:43 PM

Newmarket, NH USA

I am glad this post is getting such a good response I am learning more and more from your experiences. Keep it going thanks

4/3/2008 8:47:04 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

For what its worth, my "Snake Oil Seed Serum" also includes peroxide, no beer...well, not for the seeds, BF

4/4/2008 12:14:55 AM