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Paradise Mountain, New York

On AGGC you can checkout each pumpkin that was grown by the grower. There you will find how many square feet the pumpkin was grown in. My question is, as a rule of thumb, how many square feet of plant do you need before the pumpkin to grow a giant? Joe Jutras 1689 was grown in 750 square feet. But how many square feet was before the 1689? It sounds like to me that you can't grow the x-mas tree pattern. The vine pattern would be like one big square box. You need to grow ALL of your side vines out to 12-14 feet. Is this correct? Joe's 1689 was 17 feet out. So 17 feet out times side vines both ways (12 feet each way) would be 24 feet. 24' x 17' = 408 square feet. But in the christmas tree pattern (Triangle) it would only be a little over 200 square feet. Square feet of a triangle is half that of a square.

2/25/2008 5:53:15 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

Great question!

2/25/2008 8:35:12 AM

Rhode Island

you are absolutely correct brian.

to get a true christmas tree (or what the vision of a xmas tree brings to mind)we immagine a plant full at the base then gradual tapering down to the fruit.
which in our case here in sngpg land really ends up to be a box.( you need a full plant feeding the new fruit.
the square footage before the fruit as you mentioned is determined by the length of main before the chosen fruit.
it is for that reason we dont like to set a fruit until we are at a minimum of 12 ft out.
as important to square footage of plant is how much plant you have after the fruit as well.a good guess depending on length of main before fruit in a growing area of 750 sq ft would be 60 to 65 percent before the fruit and 30 to 35 percent after.( growth after the fruit will take a good part of the seasons balance to grow because it slows dramaticly once the fruit starts to put on big weight
( nothing is getting by that pumpkin ).

its is our belief that the pumpkin is a giant sink and will draw nutrients back from everyehere on the plant. thats why fruit will continue to grow even after a section of base and main are lost during the season.

the biggest key to success is to have those first couple of 12 ft sides ready to dead end on or about pollination time.

to gain ultimate success every side before the fruit should be at 12 ft and dead ended within 10 to 14 days after pollination ( if possible ).
timing is everything with giant pumpkins. they grow in cycles and you need to have the plant and fruit ready to be in that window of opportunity.
if your still growing salad before the fruit to late after pollination more energy is lost growing side vines than it is growing fruit.
same thing for good july and august growth. you must switch gears ( by how you prune and prepare your plant) or you will never realize full potential.

pap

2/25/2008 8:49:40 AM

[email protected]

I saw the 1689 growing but I don't remember if all of the sides in front of it had made the entire stretch. It's been my observation that once the fruit starts going the sides usually stall so the plant still ends up with a Christmas tree point.

Joe will be at Niagara to answer all of these questions.

2/25/2008 8:50:36 AM

[email protected]

There ya' go...start early!

2/25/2008 8:53:24 AM

Rhode Island

i guess the best way to put its is this
any weight gains lost during the season due to poor or late starts,lost pollinations,late pollinations,you will neger get back.
the fruit starts slowing on the east coast around mid august for a few reasons . one big one is the days are starting to get shorter. the nights are getting cooler

pap

2/25/2008 8:57:57 AM

[email protected]

great post Brian... Thanks for the awesome input Pap.

(Im on page 82 of BackYard Giants as of last night.. hard to put it down!)

2/25/2008 12:00:26 PM

Midwest

pap
You say terminate the side vines within 10 day of pollination ~ 12 ft. I was wondering about those side vines that are closest to the pumpkin. If there are several short sides closest to the pumpkin do we terminate those before they reach 12 ft. Should all the side vines before the pumpkin be terminated within 10days ? Do you say 'within 10-14 days' because the pumpkin starts to consume more 10-14 days after pollination? Thanks
Greg

2/25/2008 1:23:27 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Pap, is 12' a definitive length, further south we get more growth earlier, and 15' side vines is not out of the realm of possibility...should I cut em at 12' or terminate them at pollination time?? Thanks!!! Peace, Wayne

2/25/2008 6:48:46 PM

Salem, OR

I like the idea of letting the side vines before the pumpkin grow all season in a spider pruning pattern so that I get more plant behind my pumpkin. That way some of them are much more than 12' long. I still can't decide whether to termininate them or not. The first three or so side vines are so darned thick that I hate to chop them.

2/26/2008 12:19:35 AM

Rhode Island

sometimes to meet our planned dates we will terminate a few sides before the fruit at less than 12 ft.

if you can meet certain side vine criteria (12ft) and have the room to go wider and still be in that window of opportunity of filling the plant out before the fruit growth period ? try it and see.

they dont give awards for thick and long side vines, big leaves or a giant pretty plant.
terminate sides before the fruit and let the pumpkin grow.
thats my take on it.

pap

2/26/2008 4:25:36 AM

maine USA

Paps, I have read many times that it is best to have the fruit at least 10 to 12 ft. out. What though would be the ideal placement. Such as you have fruit at 12, 15, and 20 feet out, everything is equal, rate of growth, appearance, shape, pollination date {not likely but for the sake of this question}, and etc. Which one would you keep?
thanks Kathy

2/26/2008 11:45:46 AM

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

Thanks for the intel briefing, This really helps give me the info to make 08 500pounder or bust.

2/26/2008 11:54:19 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

I've always tried for at least 7 secondaries on each side of the main vine before setting a fruit. Depending on the growth of the main, and how many secondaries one might clear close to the stump, often depends on how long the main will be at pollination time with the recommended minimum of 7 secondaries per side.

There was a great thread earier about this at:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=201786

Pap, ideally how many secondaries per side do you like before setting fruit?

Thanks/Glenn

2/26/2008 3:59:28 PM

Salem, OR

Pap/others--So, let me see if I understand the "chop the first couple of sides 10 days after pollination" idea: if I chop them, the nutrients from those thick first two or three side vines will be diverted to the sink (pumpkin) whereas if I don't chop them, some of the energy from those vines will go to growing out the ends of those vines and the pumpkin won't get as big? It makes quite a bit of sense. Wasn't the 1302 Zulke grown by allowing all of the side vines before the pumpkin to grow indefinitely? I still can't decide, but it does seem like a really important thing to figure out before July.

2/26/2008 4:13:33 PM

Midwest

pap

Are you concerned that the health of the first leaves progressively lessens and sometimes are damaged, have failing health, become less productive. Or, is this true at all? Old leaves maybe are as productive as new leaves? Is it valid to allow growth on side vines so new leaves support later season growth? Maybe this doesn't matter?

2/27/2008 1:59:50 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Last year(on my 1041 lb. personal best) I terminated my earlier sidevines at around 11-12'. I let the three(or so) sidevines closest(but before) the fruit grow longer, curving them in the direction of the mainvine. I'm guessing the grew to around 20'. This enabled me to have more plant before the pumpkin. I ended with a personal best by over 300 lbs. Was it the vine pattern, the weather, the genetics in the seed, a better watering schedule, something else, or a combination of these? Who knows?

2/27/2008 2:38:10 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

I'm guessing "they" grew to around 20'.

2/27/2008 2:39:42 PM

[email protected]

How many sides did Joe have on the 1689? How about Ron's 1502? This means more than how long the main is.

2/27/2008 6:19:59 PM